Why aren't transactivists gender-critical?

I don't mean that I am performing botched operations on the cat by the way. Just that my aptitude for those subjects is nothing special.

I personally think David Beckham Lucy Bronze etc. are very interesting.
They have the type of intelligence that means they can assess a situation and adjust their bodies in nanoseconds. It's no less amazing than musical or medical genius to me, being distinctly average in all those areas.
I can see why Bowie would be considered more interesting because he changed a lot through his life.
Sport and music do remain one of the areas that people can escape poverty in a way that other areas can't.

Once Bowie gets mentioned then I have to chip in.

lst pic - Bowie in a dress
2nd pic - Bowie boxing

I was young in the 70s and make up and long hair on men wasn't an unusual sight (Bolan etc), or even on non-celebrities.

I don't really think I'm adding anything to the discussion, just that men dressing in what is traditionally considered "feminine attire" isn't new to me. But them claiming to be women is.

But yes, please do give us examples of gender non-conforming trans people.

That's the aim but it's at the detriment to women.

Sometimes I get the feeling that the stereotypes that are being busted within trans thinking is the 'stereotype' that if you're born male you have to be a man and born female you have to be a woman. And the 'stereotype' that a man's body has penis and balls and a woman's body has breasts and vulva.

You can't 'dress like a woman', if they're not women's clothes.

Sad that Eddie Izzard did a 180 on this.

"So then, what makes them believe they are a woman?"

I don't believe the first quote above. Trans women want to be perceived as women. Given that they usually fail when wearing dresses, long hair and make-up I really don't believe that many / any are happy to go around with short hair and no make-up. I do however believe that some transwomen engage in almost 100% male hobbies like train-spotting and model railways, probably because they are male and however much they want to be perceived as female they cannot get away from the fact that they're men.

Quote two. The million dollar question... it's not about the make-up (allegedly)... it's not about the sense of solidarity or shared experience with other women (from what I have read it is all very personal)... it's not about the biology... it's not about wanting to suffer period pain or lower wages... WTF is it then?

You can't 'dress like a woman', if they're not women's clothes
This is the crux of it. If you want to wear women’s clothes, you need to maintain gender division and stereotypes so that women’s clothes exist. Otherwise they’re just clothes.

Unicorns are just horses with a lethal weapon.

[quote ScreamingMeMe]Interesting the backlash Harry Styles received for his Vogue cover. Apparently an gendet non-confirming/gender fluid man is taking something away from trans, queer and non binary people. (Alok is quoted here.)

www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/harry-styles-vogue-cover-backlash-trans-representation-nonbinary-fashion-2020-11%3famp[/quote]
Yes, of course. Sartorially speaking, a gender nonconforming man robs female clothing of the fact that it's meant to belong to women.

You can't 'dress like a woman', if they're not women's clothes.

A cross dresser is getting a kick from appropriating the opposite sex, not from wearing something soft and floral.

@LewishamMum

It's all a mystery, isn't it?

You like knitting but are logical. No contradiction in that at all. I've never met anyone who knits or sows well who didn't have an idea about logic, maths, form and 3D. Or who is a good cook and doesn't understand the effects of heat, emulsions, process.

I like chess, online gaming and mathematics. I'm hopeless at cleaning. I'm still a woman (albeit badly dressed) and know from harassment and mansplaining what it feels like to be a woman.

I think most PPs are right. Transactivists and sadly children wanting to transition seem to be fascinated by the extremes of gender typing - pink and unicorns for girls and blue, sports and dinosaurs for boys. Instead of being told "that's fine" if they like things "belonging" to the other gender, they seem to find it easier to change sex.

I think who you find interesting as a figure is largely irrelevant to be honest. Different people will be interested in different things. Some value sports more than music.

I agree that Bowie is infinitely more interesting than Beckham.

Sounds like he's a gender non conforming man
I would say Harry Styles is a gender non conforming man. The point is that he doesn’t deny he’s a man. He just wears what he wants and acts how he wants. He has received a lot of backlash for it though. People are complaining he’s too rich, white and cis to be allowed to do that.

@KimikosNightmare I made no comment whatsoever about Beckham's career or his footballing prowess. I also made no comment about football and my interest in it. My point about him being just a not very interesting young man was a comment about him as a person. During the sarong wearing era he wasn't making political statements, nor campaigning for anything nor making any other kinds of comments about life, society, the universe. He was a good looking young man who was incredibly high profile due to his hard work at playing football. Just like many other young male footballers of the same era.

I don't know enough about Styles to give a ringing endorsement of every factor of his life. --Because apparently that's what's required to point out someone is GNC.--

But I do have to admire his stylewhich is far better than mine

Interesting the backlash Harry Styles received for his Vogue cover. Apparently an gendet non-confirming/gender fluid man is taking something away from trans, queer and non binary people. (Alok is quoted here.)

www.google.com/amp/s/www.insider.com/harry-styles-vogue-cover-backlash-trans-representation-nonbinary-fashion-2020-11%3famp

Feminism requires that sex is considered but gender can be discarded.
Gender ideology requires gender is considered and sex is disregarded.
This is worth repeating. As a feminist I don’t see any difference between myself and a man (other than the obvious physiological differences). Whereas trans activists need to promote the idea there is a difference, because if everyone is the same then transition is meaningless.

I was mistaken it seems about Styles.
Interesting quote from him.
"I'll go in shops sometimes, and I just find myself looking at the women's clothes thinking they're amazing," Styles told Vogue's Hamish Bowles. "It's like anything — anytime you're putting barriers up in your own life, you're just limiting yourself. There's so much joy to be had in playing with clothes."

He added: "I've never really thought too much about what it means — it just becomes this extended part of creating something."

Sounds like he's a gender non conforming man.
Is it acceptable to use him as an example or is his bad relationship with Taylor Swift a reason why I can't observe he wears a skirt on occasion without saying he's a girl.

Sam Smith and Harry Styles are interesting examples. Sam identifies as non binary, Harry (afaik) does not.

And Harry looks better in dresses and skirts

The observation was based on clothes. It's not a value judgement on the person.

And personally, I am interested in football and think Beckham is a good player. I don't endorse his attitude to relationships though.

But I can observe he's worn some non traditional items of clothing without it being a ringing endorsement of every facet of his life.