Why aren't transactivists gender-critical?

I thought Colin Mills did a good tweet thread on this yesterday in regards to how to have scholarly discussion.

But if I am going to castigate her (he is talking about a theoretical discussion about addressing Dr Stock’s book) I have to give reasons & evidence that relates to what she has actually written. Because, you know, that's how scholarship works. That's what makes our opinions worth serious consideration. Because we aren't acting like the one trick pub bore

Wish more posters would adopt this approach more often.

But it also had a good pub reference .

They are often so steeped in propaganda though eresh.

When you unpick these things, they are very rarely as they are presented by trans advocates.

going to end this here by saying maya forstater signed for a campaign which argues for the 'elimination of transgenderism'

No, it says that transgenderism falls within the definition of sex stereotypes. The UN calls for the elimination of prejudice based on sex stereotypes and the inferiority of women. You are conflating three different things.

On the other hand, the WHRC submission that was posted as some kind of ‘gotcha’ on the previous page has some interesting information on it.

I had no idea that 1/10 of porn in 2016 was trans porn. And I previously couldn’t be arsed looking up quite what sissy hypno was, I just guessed from the genre name but thought I was probably wrong because seriously, this is something males think a video can do… hypnotize them in this way???

I wonder at the highlighting job done on the submission though. The bits highlighted seem more relevant to male transitioners than female. I wonder if cleddyF realised that when posting it.

The horse snaps, don’t body shame me

I am sure cleddyF will be really much happier with that now.

That's brilliant, Soph

The horse snaps, don’t body shame me“

😆😆

Me, telling a joke:

“Three men walk into a bar…”

Terribly progressive person:

“How do you know how they identify?”

Me:

“Ok, three people who appear to be men walk into a bar”

TPP:

“Why are you gatekeeping gender? Their gender presentation doesn’t tell you anything about their identity!”

Me:

“OK, three people who appear to be men, although they may or may not present according to gender based norms, and who may or may not object to me making assumptions about their identity walk into a bar…”

TPP:

“WHY ARE YOU SO FOCUSED ON PEOPLES GENDERS??”

Me:

“OK, a horse walks into a bar and the barman says, why the long face?

The horse snaps, don’t body shame me “

The fact that you call others in your community scum, and claim it is because they are boorish and obnoxious is one of the first signs that you opinions are probably full of projection, and more than likely overflowing with hyperbole and hypocrisy

I do love that you have posted a whole slew of propaganda videos though. Lovely, I look forward to those

It must truly rankle though that we have no need to use those pronouns you insist are obligatory

And it must infuriate you that women simply won’t do what you want them to do*

Oh dear - you've transgressed here. The poster clearly said that he/him pronouns were obligatory. No second person pronouns allowed, clearly. No possessive pronouns either. I'll fix it for you:

The fact that he call others in he community scum, and claim it is because they are boorish and obnoxious is one of the first signs that he opinions are probably full of projection, and more than likely overflowing with hyperbole and hypocrisy

I do love that he have posted a whole slew of propaganda videos though. Lovely, I look forward to those

It must truly rankle though that we have no need to use those pronouns he insist are obligatory

And it must infuriate he that women simply won’t do what he want them to do

@Sophoclesthefox

Sorry, no, I can’t not go there

two people are at a bar. they are neither men nor women. their sexes may differ, they might not. the main point is that it doesn't matter

Aren’t “two people are at a bar” jokes supposed to have a punchline?

Maybe the poster used it as a comedic signpost about the comedic devices used through out.

Like the claim that there is scientific evidence for our existence. That was comedy gold. Because no one denies trans people’s existence, do they?

And we absolutely would love the scientific evidence to be posted. We live in wait. …

It is a belter of a post, both in its earnestness and its offensiveness, not least to the poor old capital letter. I love the assumption those videos might be new, the casual transphobia to those who don’t toe the party line and the “pronouns are obligatory” demand.

No.

Thank you cleddyF.

Another nighttime post that proves truly illuminating!!!!

It is almost like posters think readers don’t notice the lack of respect that they, the posters, have for females or for other people.

The fact that you call others in your community scum, and claim it is because they are boorish and obnoxious is one of the first signs that you opinions are probably full of projection, and more than likely overflowing with hyperbole and hypocrisy.

I do love that you have posted a whole slew of propaganda videos though. Lovely, I look forward to those.

It must truly rankle though that we have no need to use those pronouns you insist are obligatory.

And it must infuriate you that women simply won’t do what you want them to do.

Sorry, no, I can’t not go there

two people are at a bar. they are neither men nor women. their sexes may differ, they might not. the main point is that it doesn't matter

Aren’t “two people are at a bar” jokes supposed to have a punchline?

That’s an amazing post @cleddyf.

Incredible on many levels.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts with us.

I honestly don’t know where to start I think I probably won’t. I’ll just go back and enjoy trying to parse any coherent thought out of it. Overall impression: be kind, scum!

Where to even start with that?

two people are at a bar. they are neither men nor women. their sexes may differ, they might not. the main point is that it doesn't matter.

In some circumstances sex might not matter, in some it really does. If I’m on a date it matters to me that the other person at the bar is male. If it’s someone I’m meeting for the first time it matters because I’ll take measures to ensure my own safety if it’s a male.

You really can’t see the utter privilege it is not to have to consider the sex of someone you might meet in a bar, to know that they might mean you harm and to know that by virtue of their body composition alone they could cause you significant harm? If that’s not the very definition of male privilege, I don’t know what it.

Sex matters.

Oh dear. Someone who is very borish and obnoxious is insisting other people are borish and obnoxious while lecturing women on how to think, talk, act, behave and respond.

No. I will not watch any of the 'video essays' (sic) you promote and I will not comply with your demands. I will extend to you the same courtesy (none) you have shown.

'the very concept of such a thing is like heroin to me - something i can never have, but i know that if i were to experience it, i would never want to live another second without it.'

Have you ever tried heroin?

You are aware that people can and do give it up, I assume? You imply that would be impossible. That's not a helpful view of addiction.

Oh. And you CAN have it. You can buy it. Might take a while to find how and where to start but definitely doable.

Heroin is extremely harmful. Seen trainspotting? It decimated large areas and caused a large amount of death. Not sure that's the comparison you want tbh.

Anyway. It's a poor analogy and crass.

And no one wants to hear about your genitals. Jesus. Why are trans people always going on about genitals? Genital inspections. People with penises/ clitorises. Calling lesbians genital fetishises. Etc.

It's interesting that the poster felt comfortable using a blatant insult (scum) for anyone who has certain views and is trans but the 'wrong' sort of trans. And categorising anyone who is what used to be called transsexual, and holds those opinions as boorish etc.

It's very interesting indeed.

There's so much to take from that post!

Calling people truscum- and naming some individuals! Any trans person who hold that view are 'not very well liked in the community these days, as they've proven to be very boorish and obnoxious.'

'hold respect of trans people on a pedestal'

Ok that sounds a bit weird. All X are truscum. All y are held on a pedestal. No matter what? That sounds carefully thought out doesn't it.

Blimey!!!

' as a marginalised group, are prone to extreme violence suffered against us by cis transphobes'

You mean cis men I assume.

I couldn't agree more.

Male violence is a massive global issue. Not just the deaths but the toxic views that cause a huge variety of harm.

Men who are seen as different eg gay men, women and children, all over the world and every day, are victims of s huge amount of harm. Of a really wide variety, all driven by toxic masculinity.

As a man, have you tried addressing this on any male dominated forums? On the trans issue, I'm sure you're aware of the type of things that are said.

Do you have any ideas about how things can be improved? Many groups have tried to address the harm caused to them by men. It's really difficult though to get anywhere. Interested in your thoughts.

I don't know where to start with that post!

Calling people 'scum' on an open forum for anyone to read and draw their own conclusions is a bold move!