Why aren't transactivists gender-critical?

I am in the middle of filling out an online covid form. Where I have to input his sex it is required for the form. There is a drop down box with Male, Female, or X. Sex is still valid and if a transgendered person don't identify with with their birth sex then the option is X.

The use of the phrase is the reason i would have reported

FWIW catapillar, and maybe you have not read the entire thread, I think most posters actively engaged with this thread probably feel we have tackled most of that post upthread already.

Plus, let’s face it, it is clear from the hatred and complete incoherence and hypocrisy coming out of that post that nothing we can say will highlight that even further.

cleddy’s post does all our work for us.

As for the propaganda links. It is always brilliant to see what feeds the unsubstantiated narratives being pushed by trans activists who choose to progress a version of rights that conflict with the rights meant to protect all females.

Even cleddy (because cleddy has most certainly benefited from the fight of generations of woman to secure even the rights we have today).

I have not been inspired or challenged by one of those links yet. There hasn’t been any proven science discussed for instance. If you have, please tell us which one and I will watch it again.

In the meantime, if you have anything else to offer, other than a drive by scolding at midnight (and you can see we have had a run on those lately), please do engage. The readers of this part of MN read these threads and make their decisions based on the facts and thoughtfully laid out points.

Posts meant to shame women discussing their rights, don’t work at all in this format which is something often forgotten by those posting them.

I welcome cleddy’s input. It has given intense sunlight to what we knew already. How much hatred there is in some activist groups, how clear the hypocrisy is, how ill-informed many people in those groups are (particularly if they think those links are good) and how divided the trans community actually is.

Also, how badly society has let down our girls that they identify out of being girls and women, and how many activists forget that transmen are still benefiting from the rights women in the past have worked hard to secure.

It’s a horrible word.

And I declined to comment on the rest of the post not because I can’t refute just about every word of it (I can- it’s over emotive, unscientific piffle), but because I didn’t think the poster would bother to come back to engage, which they haven’t. It’s enough for my purposes that it just stands as it is, because to anyone who is using their faculties, it is not convincing at all.

And thanks, Jedi, but I stand by my disinclination to refer to anyone else as “scum”, regardless of how vile their opinions are. My take on it is that public discourse needs to happen at a level some way above name calling. Calling people gammons and snowflakes, punching Nazis or t*rfs, deciding that everyone who disagrees with you is a bigot or scum is how civilisations die. YMMV.

If you've ever designed a database for a client who didn't understand the difference between description and interpretation, this will resonate.

I think you’re barking up the wrong tree here Gerbil. I didn’t reply to your post, I quoted a part of CatapillarConnoisseur‘a post that claims the only criticisms anyone has about Cleddyf’s post is the use of the word “truscum”. My reply to that is that there are so many things wrong with Cleddyf’s post, but the “truscum” part was the only thing anyone had the energy to address because it was so overloaded with problems we have all addressed before.

I read CatapillarConnoisseur’s post as a criticism of us for failing to deal with Cleddyf’s post because we aren’t knowledgeable, whereas the reality is because none of us could be arsed.

This is an open chat board.

The poster you mention is not the only one who responded about that post.

You replied to my last comment!

Have you read the thread or only certain posts?

I think my question is fair and so it would be great if you could share your thoughts on it.

My post was to CatapillarConnoisseur.

That's not an answer to the question though.

Only criticism 🤣🤣🤣

It’s the only criticism anyone can be bothered with, the rest of it is so trite.

That's hardly the only criticism!

Why do you think criticism of calling a certain group of trans people 'trus*' , indicates a lack of knowledge?

The fact that the only criticism on cleddyF's post is the use of the word 'transcum' really is telling that no one here knows what they are talking about

The reason the anger at them is so great is that transsexuals who disagree with the current mainstream activists are very concerned that their own rights will be eroded or reverse. They understand that the things demanded go way too far, they expect pushback, and that will affect them as well.

They are trying to keep transgender people out of the things that they have been allowed, that they have carved out etc. They are EXCLUSIONARY. and so there is rage, and they are demonised.

It's the exact same position as women. We're saying no this is ours we fought for it. And so we are demonised.

I imagine in the wider world the demonisation of women who say no vocally- often middle aged feminist women- is easier to get people on board with. Loads of people really don't like women like that already.

The demonisation of the trailblazers of their own group, for disagreeing, is a harder sell I imagine.

'If someone says black people are inferior to white, or that gay people are evil and immoral and should be criminalised, then I have no problem calling that person scum.

Trans rights peeps believe TWAW, be nice, end of story, full stop. It is entirely logical that if you believe such nonsense then people on the other side are scum.'

Disagreeing is not the same as the examples you gave though. They're of a different order.

There's also the small point that if believing that sex matters makes you scum then pretty much every person on the planet is scum.

The fact that this is a standard term used for usually transsexual people. Who transitioned often when it was a much less known, not understood thing.

These are members of their own group. This very strong insult is used for those in their own group who don't agree- probably because they are seen as particularly dangerous.

The point that many of the people referred to with this word believe that sex dysphoria ( now gender dysphoria more or less) should be a condition for a gra. Means that this insult is leveled not just at members of their own community, not just those who took this step when it was I'm sure much harder. But also that they are essentially stating that they have had crippling MH issues around it in the past. Where is the consideration of that? The word used shows there isn't any and they don't care, which is completely counter to their own argument which is essentially trans people have a bad enough time, mental health problems are common and can be severe, so everyone needs to be 100% kind, thoughtful, accepting, understanding and supporting at all times.

That's pretty telling isn't it.

I still don’t have to like it jedi

If someone says black people are inferior to white, or that gay people are evil and immoral and should be criminalised, then I have no problem calling that person scum.

Trans rights peeps believe TWAW, be nice, end of story, full stop. It is entirely logical that if you believe such nonsense then people on the other side are scum.

I'd argue that the use of the word scum is a long way from the problem - it's use is absolutely inevitable if you lack all critical thinking or empathy for women and take a ludicrous position.

I don't know how relevant this is or whether this has already been spoken about. Maya Forstater who has won in life and in law that sex matters states that Gender critical beliefs are worthy in a democratic society.

If MNHQ do delete it there's sufficient information left in other posts to show what was said.

A person walked into a bar. The bartender asked for ID. The person cancelled them and walked out again.

Slightly off topic, but I do find it very telling that people have to outsource their thinking on JK's essay. I have yet to come across someone who thinks it was transphobic who could actually say why, and didn't just resort to an essay or video by a rambling 'influencer' which could easily be picked apart.
I was looking for transphobia when I read the essay. I thought I would find it because the press and younger Harry Potter actors had been unanimous. I was actually confused when I got to the end and there was no transphobia. And if there's one thing I'm good at it's doing critical analysis. I have a degree in it. So if I can't find it then I'm not surprised people who think it's transphobic can't find it.
It's reader response theory on steroids, twice removed.

I'll just finish with my own personal favourite joke:

A person of indiscriminate gender walks into a bar: ouch.

Hmm. Lacks punch.

But I don’t want that post deleted. If for nothing else other than the preservation of the phrase “elite transphobia of the highest degree”, which feels like it might be a compliment

😀

I don’t like that phrase either, rufus.

I can’t imagine ever thinking it was Ok to call people who disagreed with me “scum”.

But I don’t want that post deleted. If for nothing else other than the preservation of the phrase “elite transphobia of the highest degree”, which feels like it might be a compliment?

I really don’t like the phrase ‘truscum’

Does tell me all i need to know though

Oops. Forgot the link

twitter.com/oxsoc/status/1406258767285661702?s=21