Induction

I think so much of this must come down to staffing. I had home births (and where I live only 2% of births were at home which I assume includes unplanned home births so not at all usual). I felt very lucky to have the undivided attention of 2 midwives throughout my labour monitoring me. I knew if things started to look risky I'd need to go into hospital (which was fine) and I felt cared for through out. I trusted everyone. I'd have been happy to have had my baby with any medical intervention required (and drugs would have been a bonus!) but for women with low risk, who live near a hospital etc a home based birth can be great. That said the midwives left very quickly after and I think better support in the week or two after would be great. The birth is just the start!

[quote Hoping4second]@KM38 I've had the exact opposite experience - been told that I dis not need an epidural and if the anaesthesist had to come in every time a woman was put on the drip the nhs would collapse under the budgetary pressure or something. Strong hint that I was a wimp. (I'm not a wimp. It hurt like hell. And if they gave drugs that cause this kind of pain to men you bet your socks they wouldn't have to beg for pain relief.)[/quote]
@Hoping4second I’m sorry you had that experience! Nobody should be refused any kind of pain relief that they need. It absolutely should be every woman’s right to have their pain managed the way they choose.
It was my hope that I would be able to have a labour with as little pain relief as possible and I am very thankful that I was able to have that despite being induced and having a longish labour (39hours).

[quote RaeRaeMama]@CovidCorvid

I would argue that the interventions cause more harm than good

I read yesterday that in the past 16 years induction and interventions have increased but still birth rates have not fallen [/quote]
There is evidence that when saving babies lives bundles have been implemented the still birth rate has been cut in those trusts by 25%. here

Saving babies lives bundles are still not fully rolled out nationally and a lot of hospitals have only adopted some of the bundles snd not all yet…working towards the others.

In the West Midlands which has led SBL they looked at historical still birth cases and the cause for those and they reckoned that if SBL bundles had been fully implemented during the time period they examined they could potentially have cut the still birth rate by 50%. West Mids have had the best results since implementing SBL and I think their current rates are around 50% lower than pre SBL.

Thanks Rae. No it wasn't that. I was induced in a room on the maternity ward and they don't allow men there at night (for the safety and privacy of the other women). I knew that as soon as I was in established labour, I would be moved to the delivery suite where I would be allowed a) my birth partner and b) proper pain relief i.e. gas and air as opposed to just paracetamol. What no-one ever explained to me was induction isn't like a normal labour, and you can be having strong frequent painful contractions, but not dilated enough to be in established labour. So I was scared and in pain and alone in a room. (And unfortunately with a midwife who didnt give a shit.)

Anyway - there's me all panicky and full of adrenalin, cascade of intervention etc. Honestly, if I was going through it all again I'd insist on sitting in the car in the car park with my husband. I'd have been better off.

Sorry long post, not expecting anyone to read it all. I'm a really calm placid person, but this still really upsets me when I think about it 9 years and a second happy birth later ...

I really do need to fill out that consultation, don't I!

'But I do also believe that women need to research and know their options and stand up for themselves'

You see I hate this.

Which other situation where hosp is involved it's up to the patient to do the research and speak up?

Some mothers are very young
Some mothers trust the NHS ante natal classes
A large number of adults in the UK have a reading age of 8 (I think it was, can find stats)
Etc etc

No.

It should not be up to labouring women who are by definition vulnerable to do this.

And loads of partners are shit.

[quote RaeRaeMama]@KM38

Yes there does need to be a degree of responsibility with the women themselves. But I feel like, particularly with first time mums, they trust that they will always be given the best advice and I don't think they always are. I don't see how they can when the care isn't individual[/quote]
@RaeRaeMama The same could be said in any medical situation though, not just childbirth. I think it’s just as dangerous going into childbirth and not listening to the opinion of the professionals.
I have one DS - born during lockdown. I had an induction on medical advice. I knew I would be labouring alone for at least part of it due to covid restrictions so I ensured that I had researched as much as I could and knew what I was happy to accept and in what circumstances. I knew the higher risks associated with induction and ensured that I researched all possible interventions.

I still need to get that off my chest sometimes.

Second was planned section and was easy as pie.

I have had a lot of surgery in my life. I trust doctors generally, I like them. My parents are doctors. I spent s lot of time in children's hosp.

I've had more general anaesthetics than you can throw a stick at and plenty of invasive scar leaving cutting up.

I heal well and am used to recovering from surgery.

I was induced. Waters went about 3 hours later. Started passing meconium. Got told to lie on my left side for the monitor even though I KNEW that I shouldn't do that as it felt just wrong. Started vomiting with each.. contraction? Cervix was tight shut. My body was not ready. My baby was not ready. Who cares how overdue. It was not yet time.

Anyway vomit vomit. Meconium. They took me to birthing room thingy.

By this point I was really struggling. I thought/ assumed contractions would feel like really awful period cramps. This felt like a knife in my gut with this kind of awful twisting feeling. I knew it was wrong, you know? I've had a lot of pain in my life but this was .. different. Vomiting and just... Not right.

The midwife said what's the matter with you? Why are you being sick? I've never seen anyone behave like this before. She looked... Like she didn't know what to do tbh.

I had been offered no pain relief at any point.

Anyway then a doc came in and looked at the monitor (foetal distress) looked at me (distressed) and said we need to do an emergency section. And I thought. Great. Thank God. Back with what I know. Kind anaesthetists. Etc.

Couldn't get epidural in so I had a block and fuck me. It was just so good.

Baby out. Rushed her off. Cleaned her up. Skin to skin in recovery room. All good.

I had a positive birth because I spent my pregnancy researching and reading so that I could make informed decisions throughout about mine and my child's health

Do you think those of us with shitty births just weren't educated enough? That we didn't do our due diligence? Fucking unreal.

Some of us need medicalised births. We should be trying to improve the processes around that to make it more positive, rather than demonising it.

This thread is making my birth PTSD go off hard so I'm muting it.

@KM38 I've had the exact opposite experience - been told that I dis not need an epidural and if the anaesthesist had to come in every time a woman was put on the drip the nhs would collapse under the budgetary pressure or something. Strong hint that I was a wimp. (I'm not a wimp. It hurt like hell. And if they gave drugs that cause this kind of pain to men you bet your socks they wouldn't have to beg for pain relief.)

1. the language of ‘not letting’ me go overdue is terrible. They should explain what the benefits and risks are of inducing or not inducing and give me an opinion on what they consider to be the safest option. I should then decide. That would be more accurate in terms of what they can actually do, and, more importantly, it would make me feel safer, more informed, and more empowered, all of which are shown to improve outcomes.
2. I am absolutely certain that the 12 week scan dated the pregnancy 5 days later than it should have, so 40 weeks by their count would be 39+2 in mine. I would at least like the option of talking through going with my dates rather than theirs. As it is, I feel I’m being treated as though I don’t have the right or the ability to understand or make decisions (with support from medical professionals) about my own body and my own labour. It does not sit well with me. At all.

A lot of these experiences are similar to mine - starting with induction which then led to forceps. Also agree with a pp who said that wasn't the worst of it - the postnatal "care" was grim.

I think first time you are more trusting that things are done because they are in your best interest.

Second time round I was able to be much more assertive, had a home birth that was like a completely different experience.

Following on from my post upthread, my 9-year-old "baby" just picked up that I'm a bit upset (thinking about the induction) and asked if I'm ok and gave me a hug. I really am grateful that he's safe and well, but it did fuck me up quite a bit afterwards, and there was really no need for it to be so traumatic. Yes to cascade of intervention.

to mousey. I'm so sorry.

to be fair, I'm all for medicalised birth. my body is crap at giving birth, and I have no doubt that I and my babies would be dead without modern medicine.

What I do object to is the way women are treated when in labour. The most useful phrase I discovered is 'I don't consent to that'. I had plenty of medical professionals trying to do things to me that it was clear I was unhappy about, and they were quite happy to try to force me to accept them.

but explicitly stating that I didn't consent was like a magic spell.

Mousey I am so sorry.

You must feel guilty- don't. You did what you thought best. There is no crystal ball with birth. Who knows what is right.

Thank you for your post and I wish you and your DS all the best xx

'Have you looked up cascade of intervention?'

This is MN feminism chat.

I would be surprised if many posters hadn't heard of it.

Mousey much strength to you and your son

'. I have to say I am different, I was deluged with statistics about VBAC after my second birth and it was too much'

Yes you're right- it would need to be info accessible to all. Obviously there are women with English as a second language etc. I was speaking too much from my point of view.

Agree re VBAC I had to have a session with a midwife where she tried to persuade me.

Sadly I had read up on it.

She said the risk for second baby was a bit lower for VB Vs CS.

I said yes but it's the same as the risk for first VB baby isn't it. Which makes sense.

She said there is a risk with second CS of scar rupturing. I said yes. What are the risks of injury due to eg instrumental birth though.

It just felt like she was pushing me in one direction rather than being neutral and letting me decide.

I've never liked having incomplete info, or being told what to do

I haven't read the thread and am only going to post once and not respond because it's painful.
I did a hypnobirth course whilst pregnant and was advised that you didn't have to get an induction if your waters broke. The practitioner was very anti medicalisation.
Anyway, I left it for 48 hours against medical advice as they wanted to do an induction. My son got an infection. We're now going through the process of getting him diagnosed with cerebral palsy.

I really wish people hadn't eroded my confidence in the medical professionals who deal with maternity. It's a high price my baby paid.

I had a horrific experience of induction. It was incredibly distressing. I don't resent that I was induced, if it really was reducing the risk for me and my baby, but I resent the poor information I received beforehand, and the poor care I received i.e. no pain relief when I needed it, and labouring on my own (husband not allowed with me on the ward, even though I was in a private room).

My baby eventually arrived safely, but it didn't go well and required further intervention, and it cast a long shadow over my mental health post partum.