What right to a single sex space do I have and how?

You've said a couple of times on different threads that you don't think third spaces would be acceptable, although admittedly you've also ignored the question several times!

So: unisex individual spaces over here, as you've stated is your preference, single sex female over there. Would that be something you could live with?

You'd have privacy, & there would be women using the same facility so you would not be being forced into a male facility.

The only difference between this & what you are proposing is the existence of another space for biological females, the existence of which you are absolutely welcome to ignore.

That would work, maybe?

Are women not entitled to spaces away from the opposite sex when they are vulnerable?

Are transsexuals not entitled to spaces away from men when they are vulnerable? Your entire position relies on treating men as the enemy and transsexuals as being no different to any biological men.

Despite what you want to believe not everyone sees a woman and a transsexual together as mixed sex; certainly not the same way as a stereotypical man.

and does absolutely nothing for transsexuals?!

Genuine question - why does it do nothing for transsexuals? It’s similar in set up to the self contained unisex loos isn’t it?

Transexuals are only a tiny proportion of transwomen. What about all the rest? Who checks?

I have said I support individual unisex spaces. I did not comment farther than that.

That might work with toilets if they were properly designed but still does not cover the problems of refuges,prisons,hospital wards, hostels etc. Are women just expected to accept that they will be mixed sex ? Are women not entitled to spaces away from the opposite sex when they are vulnerable?

If it's 5000 people then disabled facilities will serve for the moment.

So let's see..... the law allows transsexuals to use womens spaces. Some women object to this. So the compromise is a solution that entirely suits a minority of women and does absolutely nothing for transsexuals?! Where's the compromise in that - its giving you everything you want and has me giving up on my legal rights.

This should be a temporary measure as 'trans' has had such an explosion in numbers clearly separate provision is needed.

Transsexuals have not had an explosion in numbers. But solution is to just chuck the whole lot transsexual, transgender etc into the disabled?

I don’t think the majority of transsexuals are looking for women to validate them here, but are using female space as they genuinely believe that is the most appropriate space for them. Their goal being to blend back into society as much as possible as women. That is the therapeutic goal.

Absolutely spot on.

So, women's spaces being used as a place in which to achieve such therapeutic goals is 'spot on'.*

What is spot on is the statement that my goal is to blend back into society as much as possible as women. That does not mean I see a toilet as a therapeutic facility but simply the one that best serves my clinic needs.

That’s why I think third spaces are best. That is a reasonable compromise IMO.

And until third spaces happen whats the compromise ?

Of course it's casting aspertions. You say "women don't want them"... surveys have shown that the majority of women accept post op transsexuals and refuse self ID…..I am very much not unsympathetic but beither am I going to sacrifice myself because I am to be made responsible for my biological sex class

No, it is not casting aspersions. My brother can’t use the female toilets. He doesn’t think that’s casting aspersions about him. To be clear, I don’t think you or the vast majority of TW like you have any nefarious intentions. It’s not about you, it’s about keeping the toilets/dorms/whatever single sex for the benefit of women. It is not to punish you, it is not to suggest you’re a bad person or untrustworthy in any way, any more than it is to suggest my nephew is bad or untrustworthy.

Yes, some women are fine with TW in female toilets. I was in the past too, but then it was pointed out to me that it’s not just about me, it’s about all the female people who use those toilets. It doesn’t matter if 100 women use a certain toilet and only a couple care about it being single sex. Those women’s feelings should be respected, and the toilets should remain single sex.

I don’t hold you responsible for your biological sex class any more than I hold my male relatives and friends responsible. I repeat - I have no reason to think you’re a bad person. I am not blaming you for the actions of other members of your biological sex class. I just want the single sex female toilets to remain single sex.

I’m sorry that that upsets you. I understand that you don’t want to use the men’s toilets and I’m truly sympathetic to that. That’s why I think third spaces are best. That is a reasonable compromise IMO.

I wish you well.

Let me get this straight. The poster enthusiastically agrees with this description of the use of women's spaces as places to achieve a therapeutic goal.

Yet when called out on the fact that the women in such spaces may not be happy for them to be used as places to achieve a therapeutic goal (and that their consent is not sought), they find it inflammatory.

Women's rights to reply are inflammatory. To the extend this perspective itself must be erased. Well, surprised I am at such honesty and integrity. They'd be a couple of goals to aim for.

therapeutic goal in respect of daily living is not the same as saying a toilet is being used as a therapeutic facility.
Can you explain the difference then because I don't see how one term can be 'absolutely spot on' while the other is 'inflammatory'?'

I think it comes down to "do you agree that natal women should be allowed to discuss their needs, their rights under law and what they plan to campaign for that is specifically for their group without the supervision of those not part of that group, but who would like some control over the outcome to meet their own needs?'

Quite.

I therapeutic goal in respect of daily living is not the same as saying a toilet is being used as a therapeutic facility.

I disagree, that's semantics.

To use the phrase "therapeutic facility" is clearly intended to be inflammatory.

You have the right to hold that opinion but I am not going to respond to such a loaded question.

You agreed with a poster who said it was necessary to a "therapeutic goal", you said it was "spot on".

One page back a post ending in That is the therapeutic goal. was declared to be 'absolutely spot on'. And yet less than a hour later, the phrase "therapeutic facility" is dismissed by the same poster as 'clearly intended to be inflammatory.' and 'loaded'.

I therapeutic goal in respect of daily living is not the same as saying a toilet is being used as a therapeutic facility.

Because that's what this wretched law has set us up for.

*Blue wants individual unisex spaces, but there can't be single sex spaces provided in addition because, reasons.

& there can't be third spaces because THERE JUST CAN'T, I think was the gist, because, reasons.*

Please do not attribute views to me that I have never said.

I have said I support individual unisex spaces. I did not comment farther than that.

So Blue what is your solution, especially since very few transwomen are transsexuals? Who is allowed in and who isn't? Who decides?

There is no easy solution here. For me it's about self contained unisex facilities.

Things I think we can all agree on is that I do not believe a penis belongs in a woman space.

There are clearly things that need looked at and challenges to overcome. I feel that transsexuals are being demonised here as "just another man".

For decades I have seen women fight to escape gender roles and stereotypes ; to prove that women are equal to men in the workplace. Yet I feel that as women look further an escape from those stereotypes it seems acceptable to put stereotypes onto me. I would not for one minute deny male violence but I do not not feel I should be punished for it.

Transgenderism is a damaging ideology that is far beyond an issue over just spaces. A problem isn't solved by pushing it somewhere else. A solution isn't just about toilets and changing facilities it's about re-education starting in schools. It's about breaking down gender roles and stereotypes again. Is not Gender Critical about challenging gender roles and stereotypes - so why is it acceptable to challenge on one hand but promote on the other?

The issue we face right now isn't about the law but about the way the law has been interpreted. The GRA has been ignored, the EA has been twisted to be gender identity rather than gender reassignment as a protected characteristic. Business and Organisations are voluntarily handing things over because they think the law tells them to. If the law as it sits right now were correctly enacted we wouldn't have a problem.

I'd like to see the use of "transwomen" as a collective term for everything under the trans umbrella stopped. To see statistics about offending for example use "transwomen" demonises transsexuals.
I'd like to see some women better understand about trans. It's all too easy to dismiss it.... men v women and gender identity doesn't exist. Its far more complicated than that. Many peer reviewed studies have proven brain chemistry differences amongst transsexuals. That's not someone who "feels like a woman". Dysphoria and dysmorphia are very real and not se easily dismissed. Education is important in moving forward.

Go back 20 years ago and we didn't have the issue we have now. We all knew that transsexuals and transvestites were different. Every single time someone uses the term "transwoman" you're actively putting the two together. Please please start saying transsexual again.

I genuinely believe transsexuals and women have far more of a common goal than many think. Transsexuals have been a huge part of the fight against self ID. Indeed a transsexual testified in court to support Maya! To dismiss a TS person as just another man just isn't a solution.

I asked the 'third spaces' question on another thread.

Blue wants individual unisex spaces, but there can't be single sex spaces provided in addition because, reasons.

& there can't be third spaces because THERE JUST CAN'T, I think was the gist, because, reasons.

Em, you literally gave the response of 'spot on' when somebody said the use of the women spaces as such were part of a therapeutic goal.

Do you find your own post inflammatory? Or just being called out on such an admission?

One page back a post ending in That is the therapeutic goal. was declared to be 'absolutely spot on'. And yet less than a hour later, the phrase "therapeutic facility" is dismissed by the same poster as 'clearly intended to be inflammatory.' and 'loaded'.
Which is it?

@BlueLipstickRocks so would you be happy to use a third space or not? Is it women's spaces or nothing?

So Blue what is your solution, especially since very few transwomen are transsexuals? Who is allowed in and who isn't? Who decides?

“ Am I wrong when I am being told that many women want to be able to have reasonable discussions?
Or would you rather I left so you can decide for me?”

That isn’t an answer to my questions.