What right to a single sex space do I have and how?

...& if there's an individual unisex space available, you'd use that instead?

But that's not what we are dealing with any more, following the Garcon v Nicot case. The general public don't know what exactly they're being asked to accept.

What about the fact that the majority of women in a Gov survey stated support for post op transsexuals? Do only those who support your position get a say?

This is like Groundhog Day. No one gets to consent for me. I do not consent to any biological males in female spaces where I expect privacy and dignity. It doesn't affect those women who are so careless with other women's rights if they can't invite in biologically male transsexuals, it's not to their detriment.

The arguments used here, the dismissal of women's voices, the lack of consideration for women and girls to be even asked for their consent are pretty much the same as those of the TRAs, for me.

*What about the fact that the majority of women in a Gov survey stated support for post op transsexuals? Do only those who support your position get a say?

Another survey they conveniently forgot to publicise for every women.*

Would you be saying that if it supported your position? Of course you wouldn't. Why is anything that disagrees with you invalid?

Why on earth should women compromise, what’s in it for us?

Look at it this way, if someone wanted to come into my home and sleep in my spare room I’d say no, if they said I only want to sleep, what’s the problem? I’d still say no, if they moved in anyway and said let’s compromise, we both want to sleep here so let’s discuss it I’d still say no.

could be accommodated differently while respecting the needs of the women who absolutely need female only space

That different accommodation in the eyes of the law is discrimination. And what I need is not met in male spaces.

In reality you'd likely just continue to use the ladies as you ignore the reasons why it should be single sex anyway.

I will continue to use the ladies as the most appropriate place to satisfy my physical needs in line with what is permitted by the law. You are free to campaign for changes but I cannot see after decades the law will decide to remove all transsexual provision.
If you want to continue to view me as a man that is your perogative. The very stereotypes that are bring dismantled to allow more freedoms to women are being used to describe the male biological sex without exemption and justify the exclusion of transsexuals.

What about the fact that the majority of women in a Gov survey stated support for post op transsexuals? Do only those who support your position get a say?

Another survey they conveniently forgot to publicise for every women.

So majority should always have precedent?

You're the one minimising the feelings of hundreds of thousands to millions of women as insignificant and cancelled out by a presumption that the majority don't mind.

I personally feel the needs of just 3k male people (who are the only people you appear to think need special treatment, which TRAs would strongly disagree on), could be accommodated differently while respecting the needs of the women who absolutely need female only space. We'll have to agree to disagree on that issue.

What really, really annoys me is this law keeps getting quotes.
But it got passed by the back door without any democracy at all, it affects fifty percent of the population and we weren't consulted.
And yes, there will be women who are surveyed who don't mind (I probably would have been one of them, gaily giving away private spaces because I was a fit liberal young thing) but there are people who do mind.
It in my mind, is the failing of our government. As far as I am concerned it's not a law enacted in good faith.
Furthermore, if the Muslim council, fair play for women etc try and repeal it I think they'll have a lot of support.

But as we can't ask if you have a GRC and no surgery or medication is necessary to obtain a GRC, how are we to distinguish you from any man who says he is entitled to use these spaces?

So if you cannot use the disabled loos, and choose not to use the men's loos, where would you like the women to go who cannot use a space where there is someone they perceive as male?

Where do they go? There's a woman currently in my town who would like an answer to this; there's no public toilet left anywhere in town that she can enter now.

Should she use the disabled toilet? Not leave home? What are her options here?

Trying again...

Around the age of 8 or 9 years old, mums begin to ask boys to use male facilities rather than continuing to use female facilities. This is for the comfort of other female users not because we think that they as individual boys will harm us.

There is no hard and fast rule around what age it happens but rather an informal social contract that the female loos, changing rooms etc are just for females-and-their-very-young-boys and if a boy is getting quite big that it's no longer an appropriate place for him to be.

Girls continue to need to use female facilities because of the physical provisions associated with menstruation. I am genuinely unaware of why an adult non-menstruating transsexual might need the physical provisions of a female loo.

These young boys are, by virtue of their age, more vulnerable than any adult. Yet, by and large, around the world millions of young boys safely use male single sex facilities every day.

If we believe that male single sex spaces are such dangerous places in which the very most vulnerable people are bound to be attacked - why on earth are we letting 8 year old boys use them independently?

So, Blue or any other transsexual out there, can I ask again, if there was a nice, fourth mixed sex additional space designed for all the people who would be happy to use a unisex space, (so parents out with their young opposite sex children, trans people, people who are not bothered about needing a single sex space) would you use that in preference?

Or would you still choose to use the female toilets [also dormitories, swimming pool changing rooms etc], bearing in mind that women (and girls) who are strangers cannot possibly know whether or not you possess a GRC or what type of surgery you may or may not have had and some women may feel a need to exclude themselves from a female space because of your presence?

A transsexual with a GRC is legally female "for all purposes".

Excerpt for the potential sex based exemptions specifically made in both the EA (many of which can potentially exclude GRC holding transsexual males where proportionate means to a legitimate aim) and GRA. Please don't patronise the women on FWR, many of whom know these laws inside out.

Who number in the hundreds of thousands to millions as we've discussed on various threads now, unlike the 3k or so MTF trans people with GRC. Please stop minimising women's feelings.

So majority should always have precedent?

I find it bizarre that the argument is that because there are more women than transsexuals with a GRC that allows you to dictate a position and disregard the law.
What about the fact that the majority of women in a Gov survey stated support for post op transsexuals? Do only those who support your position get a say?

A transsexual with a GRC is legally female "for all purposes". Do you believe the intent of the law is to exclude transsexuals from the spaces of their legal gender?

To quote "Those with a GRC "should be treated in their acquired gender for all purposes". That means that anyone who identifies themselves as a woman can already use separate-sex facilities such as changing rooms, toilets or single-sex gyms"

So the compromise is a solution that entirely suits a minority of women

Who number in the hundreds of thousands to millions as we've discussed on various threads now, unlike the 3k or so MTF trans people with GRC. Please stop minimising women's feelings.

My concern is that we women aren't asked if we give our consent to this use of our spaces and unwittingly be part of this process of a reaching/achieving someone's therapeutic goal.

Exactly. I don't, for the record. I'm not here for the benefit of others, as a prop in their scenery.

Well yes, that's why it would need to be a temporary measure.
In reality you'd likely just continue to use the ladies as you ignore the reasons why it should be single sex anyway.
But once third spaces were up and running you'd have a catered space and that should be good enough.

My concern is that we women aren't asked if we give our consent to this use of our spaces and unwittingly be part of this process of a reaching/achieving someone's therapeutic goal.

You also keep saying" give up my legal rights" What rights do you have to access female only space ,if a single sex exemption has been judged appropriate?

Where a specific exemption has been identified and enacted I do not. Such exemptions however do not apply to toilets and changing rooms for example.

The same law you want to rely on for an exemption is the same law that supports me where there isn't an exemption. Is the law only valid when it is in your favour?

You also keep saying" give up my legal rights" What rights do you have to access female only space ,if a single sex exemption has been judged appropriate?

Genuine question - why does it do nothing for transsexuals? It’s similar in set up to the self contained unisex loos isn’t it?

Using a disabled space when you aren't disabled is clearly inappropriate. There are so few and in being there I block a facility that has specific provision that only a disabled person can use.n