What right to a single sex space do I have and how?

So, I see on the thread there is a form of forced conversion therapy for gay men in Iran. Are those forced to undergo this procedure then regarded as women. Or like eunuchs of old. Or is it a state of simply neutering the sexuality? I presume it is everything off.

I'm wondering because as there can be no offspring (if sperm not frozen and used with a woman's ovum to sire progeny), I imagine marriage in order to have a family wouldn't have much success.

Do Lesbians attract 'corrective conversion' in their way, I wonder?

Other people's battles have nothing to do with the rights of natal females, and their resources are not communal property that are available as solution.
Yep.

Men are excluded from female spaces b cause male humans are known to be a threat to women.
Transwomen are male so what proof do you have that they are less dangerous than other men.
Statistics don't seem to be on your side.eg in England and Wales out of a population of 56.2 million,there were just under 900 murders in the last year, none of them were transwomen
However, two transwomen were convicted of murder, in both cases the murder of a woman.

Just the one Muslim cleric you spoke to, is it?

We really are down to no fucks given for how many natal women have problems and are excluded aren't we?

Fine. I'm done arguing about it. It's beyond apparent to me that there will never be any consideration or care for natal women in planning this, natal women can rely on absolutely nothing in terms of the services and apparent 'equality' and 'inclusiveness' being loudly and angrily demanded from them. If I wasn't convinced before I am now that the line is natal female and that's it.

There is no form of words that will ever make me feel ok with undressing in a space where males are allowed in, no matter how they identify.

It would also be interesting to see how they define 'post op' male. If not just face or boob surgery, it would also be interesting to see if this could logically also apply to men who have non working, modified or removed reproductive parts due to illness and accident.

There are passed rulings within Islam that mean laws on males do not apply to those who are post op but do to pre op.

That is because in countries like Iran they execute homosexuals who don't have forced sex reassignment surgery.

Huge amounts of effort and vigour here going into telling natal women that their feelings don't matter, their needs don't matter, their voices don't matter, male people know best and all resources belong to them, and there's nothing they can do about it.

Plus ca fucking change.

It isn't JUST a case of natal women having to prove to the final decimal place beyond all possible doubt that a sufficient number of them have been actually harmed (and that number is always n+1 anyway) before they might be permitted a say in their own resources and boundaries.

There are the women with religious and cultural barriers of their own and of the family and community they live in.
There are the women with Autism and other disabilities who cannot cope with mixed sex spaces regardless of gender identity.
There are the women who have been raped and traumatised and will never be able to remove clothing knowing they are doing so with a stranger in the room that they perceive as male.
There are the women who just plain want dignity, privacy, the association of other natal females for this space or activity, who want to have somewhere to be in the fucking world for five minutes that is not all about them revolving around the never ending, ceaseless demands that they meet the needs of everyone else.

This is pure sexism on crack. And I don't see any difference in empathy or care or even a basic sisterhood and ability to care about natal female people in any of this, regardless of what statements are being made to degree of transition. This just proves, again and again, how subhuman natal women are considered to be and why it matters so much that we stand up at this point and fight for the right to single sex spaces which mean single sex spaces.

Other people's battles have nothing to do with the rights of natal females, and their resources are not communal property that are available as solution.

Voyeurism was certainly found to increase in Target stores in USA: womanmeanssomething.com/targetstudy/

But it is ok to put women and girls in that position?

No, it isn't. That's why a solution needs to be found that's meets the need for not just women but for transsexuals too.

No one seems to care by allowing post operative transexuals into women's spaces you're creating a urinary leash for religious women

About 6 months ago I had the opportunity to speak to a Muslim cleric. I had been aware of strict rules governing women being able to undress and be around biological males.

There are passed rulings within Islam that mean laws on males do not apply to those who are post op but do to pre op.

And that's wrong. Just because women didn't have a voice in it doesn't mean that it doesn't effect them.
I've lived and worked with a lot of Muslim women. It is a problem for them. It does effect how they access services.

Crime Survey's show the true level of crime, what people report when asked confidentially, not what the police say.

No one seems to care by allowing post operative transexuals into women's spaces you're creating a urinary leash for religious women and trauma victims.

Third spaces. Every time. Why aren't they being considered?

How can data tell us anything when men's crimes are being recorded as women's?
Of course then putting aside that not all assaults are reported.

*You said you use the Ladies toilets, not the Gents. Do you mean you are attacked in the Ladies toilets, or elsewhere?

There appear to be no reported cases of transwomen attacked in the Gents toilets.
There are reports of men and trans women - with and without GRCs - causing problems in the Ladies toilets.*

I've been verbally abuse and threatened numerous times, had 2 physical assaults and 1 sexual assault in the men's.

The assumption in the men's is that if a trans person is in a male spaces they are pre op. That makes someone a massive target. Homophobic men seek pre op trans to satisfy homosecual urges whilst claiming they are still heterosexual.

There's not a single statistic of increased voyerism, assault, anything, in countries with Self ID for trans people. How does your assertion and probably pages of anecdotes, match with this reality? I hate to tell you this, but "porn hub" isn't real life. I find it quite concerning the number of gender critical people who happily admit to searching for "sissy hypno porn" or worse, on the dark side of the internet.

When data is not being collected then it is very easy to say nothing to see here. In Norway there has just recently been a 300% increase in 'female " sex offending. Coincidence that this appalling rise coincided with self id?
Plenty of statistics around to show transwomen are just as likely to be violent and or sex offenders as any other male, do why would we allow this subset of the male sex into spaces where women are vulnerable?

So a transwoman can use the men's because if their safety fears turned out to be real then action could be taken agaibst the offender.

So its OK to put me in a position where I could get raped but I should take comfort that action will be taken against the offender?

"The issue is that allowing any males in hands a loophole to predators and they will exploit it."
-- Not evidenced at all, predators are already not bothered about laws. A new one targeting trans women is hardly likely to bother them either.

Whereas bathroom laws, and fears, have been used to justify regressive policies that hurt women over and over. I just noticed this from Patricia Arquette to an ex-GC woman.
twitter.com/PattyArquette/status/1404278484680069127

“ It happens and remarkably common. I have been attacked multiple times.”

BluelipstickRocks I’m sorry to hear that.
You said you use the Ladies toilets, not the Gents. Do you mean you are attacked in the Ladies toilets, or elsewhere?

There appear to be no reported cases of transwomen attacked in the Gents toilets.
There are reports of men and trans women - with and without GRCs - causing problems in the Ladies toilets.

Toilets aside, Trans women are attacked. So are Gay, Lesbian and Biisexual people. So are Women.

The question is: which group is genuinely most at risk and where does that risk occur?

If the Gents toilets is unsafe, that issue needs to be addressed instead of creating an unsafe situation in the Ladies.

would check out what you are saying. As the problem is this is fear mongering, and it just doesnt happen. In the rare occasion it could, then action is taken against the offender.

So a transwoman can use the men's because if their safety fears turned out to be real then action could be taken agaibst the offender.

There's not a single statistic of increased voyerism, assault, anything, in countries with Self ID for trans people. How does your assertion and probably pages of anecdotes, match with this reality? I hate to tell you this, but "porn hub" isn't real life. I find it quite concerning the number of gender critical people who happily admit to searching for "sissy hypno porn" or worse, on the dark side of the internet.

Of course there are statistics. There is a massive list on Twitter! Thank you for alerting people to the title of the genre.

And in answer to your question about predatory men, women can challenge men if they are occupying a single sex space. They can't if they're not.

The difference is that a man or woman seeing a man entering a female space should be able to challenge them. We don't know how many people have been prevented from crimes by social contracts because crimes that don't happen aren't recorded.
And the assumption that they are not 'real' trans, only sexual predators cannot be proved because the bandwidth of trans is now meaningless.
The issue is that allowing any males in hands a loophole to predators and they will exploit it.