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Original poster

Would anyone mind if I ask a question about Robin Moria White?

244 replies

rabbitwoman · 11/06/2021 22:24

I am sure she won't mind because she used to come here often to plug her book as the definitive guide to trans law.

I just wondered if it might need considerable editing after yesterday? As it will now have to take into account the judgement in Maya Forstater 's case?

Just to add, I had not read a huge amount about Maya. I had read Robin's piece in the independent and thought that it seemed maya was transphobic, and had behaved in a dreadful way.

But I have read all about it in the past few weeks and read the whole judgement yesterday and it's taken my breath away that Robin has not been even reprimanded for what she wrote. Why not?

www.google.com/search?q=robin+moira+white+forstater&oq=robin&aqs=chrome.0.69i59l3j69i57j69i60.2312j0j7&client=ms-android-vf-gb-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8

OP posts:
Datun · 12/06/2021 12:25

@rabbitwoman

*spell

Sheeeesh!

🤣
WhatyoutalkingaboutWillis · 12/06/2021 12:25

Your opening post is now on Twitter! @rabbitwoman

Leanandmean31 · 12/06/2021 11:30

@nauticant

If a key part of someone's legal book is about an upcoming legal judgement, it's a good idea to present both sides fairly and if they're going to pontificate on the outcome, to do so from a position informed by legal knowledge and expertise and not an affiliation to one side over the other.
It would indeed. I wonder how many times ‘not worthy of respect in a democratic society’ appears in the book.
Leanandmean31 · 12/06/2021 11:29

Yes I’m sure Naomi can offer a shoulder. They can discuss how this is all a right-wing white supremacist conspiracy theory orchestrated by some British women on a parenting website.

Just remembering that delicious BBC interview with Naomi Wolf where her huge mistake was revealed.

nauticant · 12/06/2021 11:28

If a key part of someone's legal book is about an upcoming legal judgement, it's a good idea to present both sides fairly and if they're going to pontificate on the outcome, to do so from a position informed by legal knowledge and expertise and not an affiliation to one side over the other.

TheShadowyFeminist · 12/06/2021 11:20

@Leanandmean31

You’ve got to feel a bit sorry for RMW. The book has only just come out and it’s already totally incorrect on the law. Must be so infuriating.
I'm sure Naomi Wolf can commiserate & offer support. Her book got pulped, such was the extent of her errors in her book. It must be incredibly humiliating to see work you spend countless hours writing & checking, only to then see a chunk of it be completely undermined by a land mark judgement that settles the arguments.
Leanandmean31 · 12/06/2021 11:13

You’ve got to feel a bit sorry for RMW. The book has only just come out and it’s already totally incorrect on the law. Must be so infuriating.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 12/06/2021 11:12

It's worth remembering that the original judge in the Forstater case was relatively junior, whereas the one who heard the appeal was a High Court judge: more senior, and with a better grasp of the law - as you can see from reading both judgements.

I've seen a few comments from barristers in re: Choudhury's judgment that it's plain to see why none of his judgments have ever been appealed - and that he's a hot tip for the Court of Appeal and higher positions.

Floisme · 12/06/2021 11:10

As I've said, I don't really object to that Independent piece - it's out there now for everyone to see. However I think the least they can do is offer Maya Forstater a right of reply.

TinselAngel · 12/06/2021 11:08

It reminds me of the criticism of Stonewall, ie that they've been giving advice based on how they want the law to be rather than how it actually is.

RoyalCorgi · 12/06/2021 11:05

In Ms White's case I'd be very worried about the possible reputational damage I might incur if I wrote something misleading about a legal case in a national newspaper. After all, Ms White's job is to understand the law and represent it correctly.

It's worth remembering that the original judge in the Forstater case was relatively junior, whereas the one who heard the appeal was a High Court judge: more senior, and with a better grasp of the law - as you can see from reading both judgements.

TheShadowyFeminist · 12/06/2021 11:05

It's certainly a bold choice. To nail ones opinion on a contested point in law in a book that quickly dates when that view is ruled incorrect. Maybe this is a common theme in legal books. The only ones I read contain actual case law, occasionally when it's relevant to a case I'm looking at. Those tend to be more informative on points of law that are required to build a case etc. Beyond that, I can't say that I generally read books like this one.

Melroses · 12/06/2021 10:51

I think they really ought to provide a discount for the 318 pages (at least) that are out of date.

TinselAngel · 12/06/2021 10:42

@InspectorHastings

I'm regretting clicking on the Amazon link - the 'more to explore' section has a fascinating collection of books, which I presume tend to be bought alongside.
One of the suggestions is the "Mystical Saints Colouring Book". Grin
InspectorHastings · 12/06/2021 10:39

I'm regretting clicking on the Amazon link - the 'more to explore' section has a fascinating collection of books, which I presume tend to be bought alongside.

nauticant · 12/06/2021 10:38

True. Obviously if a barrister went online under their own name and commented about a legal case, if they were being professional and responsible they would be scrupulous about the information they posted.

Floisme · 12/06/2021 10:31

To be fair I think anyone is entitled to an opinion, whether that be on Maya Forstater's case or on barristers attempting to engage with adversaries on social media. It's the way some opinions can find an outlet through mainstream broadsheets while others can only be written in secret code that feels inequitable.

As for the book, if The Works pick it up and it comes down to under £2, I'll buy it in case there are any new car anecdotes.

nauticant · 12/06/2021 10:28

If I buy the RMW book I can put it next to Naomi Wolf's Outrages, assuming I buy that one too.

aliasundercover · 12/06/2021 10:14

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Quotes deleted post

Original poster
rabbitwoman · 12/06/2021 09:28

I should think that's what they are really arsey about.

I may be reading the wrong sources but I am almost certain more people have lost work for their GC views than for being transgender. I may be wrong, but would definitely risk betting on it.

OP posts:
TwistedEyeOfHorus · 12/06/2021 09:17

www.amazon.co.uk/dp/1913715663/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_glt_fabc_7BNAPPM70ET0W7R4SMSS?tag=mumsnetforu03-21

Robin's book is still available on Amazon... seems to be lacking any reviews, though. I wonder if the people reading it were waiting for Maya's judgement to come through. After all, if harassing a person for.their pro-trans views is wrong, harassing someone for their pro-female views is wrong now. That's only fair....

Leanandmean31 · 12/06/2021 08:15

Must be awkward in the office as Anya Palmer and Ben Cooper QC are from the same chambers as RMW. They seem to be in a different league when it comes to legal expertise though.
RMW totally fails to see why any woman would be uncomfortable about sharing spaces with them. There is never even an attempt to see things from women’s perspective.
I too will be getting the popcorn out and read Alex Sharpe’s opinions. Must be tough for them now their empire is toppling.

Original poster
rabbitwoman · 12/06/2021 08:05

*spell

Sheeeesh!

OP posts:
Original poster
rabbitwoman · 12/06/2021 08:05

But, gahhhh, I could not even soe distress properly!)

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Original poster
rabbitwoman · 12/06/2021 08:04

I can't imagine what this has not been flagged up as an outrageous conflict of interest.

And as a barrister, and author of such an esteemed book, surely White would know that. I think we are seeing a manifestation of eustress - the opposite of destress - where you have continued to get away with bad behaviour for so long that you become incredibly confident that you will get always get away with it and become more and more audacious.....

(great word. I have been waiting for the perfect occasion to use it since I first heard it. I hope I got it right!)

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