Compromise for new FWR section - could you support this?

Cheer up OP. At least you got everyone to.agree on something.

In answer to the OP, no!

As others have said, this is the single most important issue being discussed by feminists at present. The meaning of the word 'women' has been so compromised that we have to specify with 'natal women' or 'adult human females' or 'XX women' when we mean, yunno, women.

The whole situation is fucking insane.

It’s a no from me. I cannot fathom on how you can discuss FWR without mentioning sex and gender. If someone wants to discuss an issue then start a thread on it - don’t moan about the other threads that someone has taken the time to set up because they felt strongly enough.

Nope.

Wouldn't this mean putting together moderation principles for discussing feminism without reference to biological sex - for this board or a sub-board, depending how they were split? I'd like to know what they would look like. Would they then apply everywhere on MN except the special segregated board?

Good point that isolation will make it an easier target.

I feel bad for the op cos this is still a million times better than MNHQ's proposal and, if I thought this was the 'Lib fem' side of the argument wanting to go off and set up their own space , I'd be saying 'sorry to see you go but fair enough'.
But as it is, it feels a bit like having a teenager who moans non stop about wanting to leave home but who expects you to pack their bags for them - it's not only that it's annoying, it's also that you know it's not going to work.

Somewhere women aren't allowed to post about important topics that directly affect them sounds like twitter tbh

Quite! The endless small encroachment into women only spaces is how we got here in the first place

“Of course TW offenders wouldn’t be put in women prisons” but they were

“Of course no one would let TW play rugby against women” until the RFU said ‘that’s fine’

“Of course programmes to increase women’s representation in politics won’t be open to TW” until they were

Every tiny concession, every little line that was pushed and women socialised as we are to beeeeee kiiiind said “um well as long as you promise not to taje the piss im sure tjat will be fine” is how we got to having to go to court to have the right to say that no men can’t actually change Sex to be women

Boundaries.

The constant need to police them and not give an inch because it invites creep.

It's exhausting and damaging. Constant 'small' concessions always end with getting rid of the thing - it's like managing people out in the workplace.

MNHQ want to purge discussion of sex and gender from this board

Since that is the biggest threat to women’s rights at present, how could this board continue to be FWR?

After all, MN would still have a feminism board - just one where you weren't allowed to criticise gender ideology.

Ah of course because then you wouldn't be a misogynist you'd be fighting "transphobes", it makes sense now.

The danger is that activists will put pressure on Mumsnet to close the GC board. After all, MN would still have a feminism board - just one where you weren't allowed to criticise gender ideology.

I think this is a good point - just understood it now. It will definitely be an easier target to shut down if separated.

Remember the Bounty campaign? Back in the day when so many of us complained about them?
It would appear current sponsors etc have decided to apply pressure to MNHQ.
Christ alive. ‘ a forum run for women, by women’ but only if we put up and shut up.
Slow handclap Mumsnet Towers.

We've had this discussion before. Splitting the feminism board into gender critical and third wave sections.

The danger is that activists will put pressure on Mumsnet to close the GC board. After all, MN would still have a feminism board - just one where you weren't allowed to criticise gender ideology.

Sounds like policing womens speech to me... wasnt there some attempt to split this board into Lib Fem and Rad Fem a while ago.. I think that was not super successful!

I couldn’t support this - it’s completely integral to pretty much all feminist issues at the moment, and so many women want a chance to discuss it. In any other board on MN if you don’t like the topic, you don’t open the thread!

No, Feminism is about the Human Rights of Women as whole human autonomous beings, if that is some folks concerns then they in all honesty can't call themselves feminist. Hiding Women who care about the Human Rights of all Females away in some dusty corner is exactly what this society and era is trying to do and I want a record open to all for my daughters to know that when push came to shove, there were Women who stood up and said No you cannot reduce, remove, appropriate or erase the Human Rights that females fought for. Sub threads = sub humans = sub categories. Mumsnet "chooses" to moderate our speech and beliefs, well that's up to them & they can get on with it. Cheers. X

I suspect the issue is that what is wanted is this space, and that therefore this compromise, admirable as it sounds, won't achieve anything.

The issue is that we have ANY space. We will be followed where ever we go.

But @shesellsseacats I also think your proposal is better than @MNHQ

I don't know op, you're trying to be positive and I feel a bit churlish arguing with you. I just have a strong feeling that it won't solve the objections to FWR.
You see, I don't think any of this is really about a desire for a new, additional space because it it were, wouldn't the suggestion have been made already? I suspect the issue is that what is wanted is this space, and that therefore this compromise, admirable as it sounds, won't achieve anything. But maybe I've just had a bad day!

And yes @shesellsseacats I agree that your suggestion is a far better one than what MNHQ are proposing to do.