Heads up: MNHQ planning to create a sex/gender topic separate from FWR.

Might you end up with a situation where the same topic is posted on two different boards, one where you can mention the thing and the other where you can't?

So Orange - how would you like it to look going forward, with that thread as an example?
No criticism of the intersectional stuff presumably, then you would post on it?
That thread could be posted in the non-gulag board, but if someone did comment on the intersectional thing would that comment get deleted? Or the whole thread moved?

I'm just not sure how it would work.

It's not hostility - it's exasperation. Women have been posting about all sorts of things that affect them on FWR for years. Some of these things have a crossover with trans issues because of selfID, some of these things have a crossover with trans issues because it's impossible to post about them without tras jumping on the thread and scolding for wrong speak and some of these things have nothing to do with any of the above. If you can't see the irony of (insert sex here) monitors dictating what women can and can't say on a feminism board then there isn't much else to say.

You haven't attempted to post on it. If it's something that is interesting to you why not?

Because as I said earlier the posts didn't discuss the original link, the OP sought out the word intersectional in the Gorilla Girls website, linked a article on Foucault and the thread became about that. It's not only me that found that to be a conversation stopper, it was everyone else.

Good quality posting that raises the discussion to different levels tends to be what keeps threads going.

What did you want to say? Go put it in the thread.

I've read the original link and I'm going to watch the podcast later but I won't come back here to talk about the Gorilla Girls as the word intersectional was enough to damn them and I don't want to discuss them with people that have done that.

The thread got to child abuse in five or six posts and died a death.

Anyway the hostility here for observing that different topics might improve variety is duly noted.

What is TAAT in MNHQ speak?

As an extra to that I am sick of what seems a few self appointed board monitors who feel they are somehow empowered to say what is or is not feminist.

Yes. It's about controlling speech, not about having anything useful to contribute instead.

I think this is getting a bit silly. Posters say they are alienated from FWR because the topics they want to discuss aren't there. But then it turns out they dont start threads and/or cant be bothered to look past the first page to see if there is a thread on the topic and/or dont post so it is they themselves that are helping to sink these topics that they complain are being pushed out.

Also, if there was another board, or somehow a strick rule about what could go on FWR, there is nothing to stop women whose feminism is from a gender critical / sex based rights position from posting on these threads.

So as I said yesterday what this seems to be about is that there are too many on FWR that have a similar viewpoint. And short of having a quota, ie kicking some contributors of the board, it solves absolutely nothing.

the only way it will change is those who dont like the current topics start other thread, take the time to contribue, and dont bother going on to threads you are not interesed in to complain that contributers have view points you dont share.

As an extra to that I am sick of what seems a few self appointed board monitors who feel they are somehow empowered to say what is or is not feminist. If as a woman you want a feminist perspective on walking alone, buying a bra, public toilers, being lesbian or bisexual, then it is absolutely right that women can post here, because it is an issue they want to discuss but from a feminist perspective.

Why is it that some women have this extremely narrow view of what feminism is about? It is about our lived experience as women.

Including being the mother of non binary children.

Looking at the top trending thread started in Chat this afternoon, I think it may be too late.

Can open, feminist worms everywhere.

My apologies PaleGreen I did not realise that you have name changed and had already posted on the FWR board. I was interested in how a newbie might structure the board to encourage others to contribute.

Check out the latest on Stonewall?

I think it's a silly idea, mnhq.

@334bu I have actually posted before (once) and had an interesting discussion with some people but a lot of posters were overly argumentative and seemed to seek to invalidate some opinions of other posters quite aggressively. On most boards difference of opinion is accepted but often on this one the tone suggests there’s only one correct view.

Eg someone on here has posted about “men and their allies” taking over the feminist board. It sort of makes it sound like someone who doesn’t want to talk on the identity politics board isn’t a woman but an “ally” of men. I don’t like language like that that seeks to divide rather than seeking debate and furthering of understanding.

I actually don’t have a solution to suggest to this issue but I wanted to give my own view as a woman, which is that I sometimes find that not all views (and therefore the women that hold them) are welcome on this board. And that identity politics dominates the board. And that potentially the views on MN feminist section are skewed as any opposing voices just opt out.

I think it's a terrible idea.
It's wrong in principle to divide the board into two 'tribes' and police the content. Isn't that a version of 'No debate'?
And it will be unworkable in practice. How are posts or threads in the 'wrong' section going to be dealt with? Deletion of post? Deletion of thread ? Moving threads between sections? Moving them back again if they change tack? What exactly are the criteria?
It's a stupid and regressive idea. Proposing it just a few hours after Maya's case is extremely poor judgment and is an insult to the users of this board.
Don't do it, MN.

I am happy with the way things are. What with being an ordinary woman and all.

Don't like the subject of a thread? Don't click on it. Don't like the subject of a thread and want to say something about it? Get in amongst it then and see how your arguments stack up. It's good for you to engage with people you disagree with. Keeps your brain from turning to mush.

Yes this. Even though I'm GC there's loads of threads I don't post on. My 'Threads I'm On' list for the last week only has 16 threads on it. The first page of FWR usually has around 50 active threads at any one time.

We all pick and choose based on what interests us, what we have to add and how much time we can spare. Just open one that does interest you and dive in. Nobody can hide from disagreement though and that stands true for the whole of Mumsnet or any forum for that matter.

If this does happen is there anywhere else we can all migrate to to discuss FWR?

Mumsnet is one of very few online spaces I know of that allows this type of discussion. And now I'd like to think the discussions will flow even better after the Forstater case enshrines our right to state what we believe without dancing around the language we use.

GC feminists have already be shunted off into this corner of the internet. We don't need to be further sectioned off.

If you have something to say in a GC thread or thread about the trans debate then say it. Engage in it. We're all happy to debate. What good is it to anyone to hide themselves away in separate little clubs where like-minded people simply talk amongst themselves ad nauseam?

You want one group where you and your pals can all talk in agreement and another group where those you disagree with can go?

What a pointless exercise.

Don't like the subject of a thread? Don't click on it. Don't like the subject of a thread and want to say something about it? Get in amongst it then and see how your arguments stack up. It's good for you to engage with people you disagree with. Keeps your brain from turning to mush.

Plus we know there are numerous high profile cases coming up that are going to shine a much brighter light on the issues than FWR can. Is MNHQ going to tell the good feminists that they can't discuss legal cases in the public domain? There are feminist issues around the experience and treatment of Keira Bell and Alison Bailey to be debated. Why and how could / would you censor women from discussing them? Are you going to take down any and every thread that creeps out of the pen MNHQ?

You haven't attempted to post on it. If it's something that is interesting to you why not? Good quality posting that raises the discussion to different levels tends to be what keeps threads going.

What did you want to say? Go put it in the thread.

I'll say it again, anyone who doesn't think this board meets their needs has several options:

Stay and argue your corner.
Campaign for MNHQ to set up a new board for you - or they could simply rename one of the other rarely used feminist boards just for you.
Use a different forum - I'm sure many if not most online feminist groups would welcome you.

And yet none of those alternatives seem to be good enough. The demand appears to be that most of the current users of this board move out so that they can have it all to themselves.

Why is that?

Even now, I'm not the poster who referred to recidivism

That was actually Orangecircling themselves, and people tried to answer based on that framing even though my point was a more general one.