Heads up: MNHQ planning to create a sex/gender topic separate from FWR.

It's a ridiculous idea. Sex is not an offshoot of feminism, it's the fucking bones of it.

I think it's a terrible idea. I've started threads on all kinds of topics in FWR, not just gender identity related ones. Sounds like a lame excuse by those who aren't interested in putting in any effort to start discussions on topics that supposedly interest them.

*bit

that missed the bit where the judge pointed out that harassment was still harassment)

That but wasn’t missed at all. In fact it was discussed at length.

Would like to be able to engage with feminism board without coming across transphobic stuff

I think it's a fantastic idea. There are plenty of feminists like myself who no longer feel at home on the board and have even been told that we aren't feminists just because we disagree over trans issues.
There are many things affecting women that need discussing. They get lost in repeated threads (for example multiple threads on yesterday's judgement that missed the bit where the judge pointed out that harassment was still harassment).

I don't see how this could work. Issues of sex and gender are not tangential to women's rights.

Presumably every thread mentioning anything to do with trans will be shuffled off to the "gender" topic, following the usual monitoring/reporting by (mostly) non-posters.

Just as now every thread on the main boards is shuffled off to FWR.

God forbid society as a whole should see any discussion on the topic. People might be radicalised

We also don't have the capacity to merge threads on this forum. It's not unusual for the same topic to be posted multiple times:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4268111-Oxfam-identifies-women-as-the-root-cause-of-male-sexual-violence

This splits up discussion and people possibly go away with the impression that nobody's interested when there have already been 4 threads on it which they've not seen.

There seems to be this idea that regular posters only post about the conflicts of right between different groups. This is simply not true but it is being perpetuated.

If topics have no relevance to gender, gender doesn't get discussed on that thread. You do then have the visibility of the many eyes that visit and have the ability to select the threads they wish to interact with. Just like all the other boards on MN. So, you get a greater diversity of opinions, experiences and voices on those threads compared to if it was on a board with reduced traffic.

My prediction is that the new board "cunty corner" or whatever will take over from fwr/feminist chat and the fwr/feminist chat will start with a few threads trying to be inclusive of 'all' women and then go quiet or not really be about feminism but more general discussions.

Define "drowned out".

I mostly lurk here as I am Australian, not British, but also wanted to put in a vote for this being a terrible idea.

Yeah molten. They are interconnected

I don’t even understand what Justine means on the other thread about sex and gender and then ?

There are always topics here that are covering the wide ranging feminist issues that don't touch at all on anything to do with gender. There are also other boards under the Feminism topic to visit and post on. I pop over and visit but they are not anywhere near as busy though.

I would suggest that any hiving off will probably mean that the main board will potentially lose significant traffic and be a less active board.

daft idea.

So many of the current issues of feminism are impacted by the bastardisation of language driven in part by the trans issue. Surrogacy for example, is very much taking advantage of the shift to separate language of women's rights from their biology. These issues aren't occurring in a bubble, they're all interconnected and it's disingenuous to pretend they can be separated off.

How do we ensure equal pay? Not possible if sex disaggregated data not allowed to be collected in case it hurts some employees.
What practical steps should schools take to reduce assaults on girls?,. Not possible if schools are teaching girls they are not allowed to establish boundaries and are being forced to use mixed sex facilities.
What could improve care around pregnancy and childbirth? See above data problem
All of these are feminist issues and belong on FWR. So what will happen ?
Will we be unable to discuss female only services on a Feminist Board?

I can't envisage how it would work in practice. If I wanted to start a thread on the treatment of women in prison would it be hived off to the sex/gender thread if I mention the importance of single sex provision?
Isn't that creating a 2 tier feminism which excludes feminists like me from discussions. Anyone can start a thread on any issue that affects women and girls without being told it's not relevant to the FWR board. I've participated in loads of threads that have no link to trans issues. I really don't see what the problem is, unless some people want to irradicate me from discussions about feminism.

Posters aren't interested in discussing them.

That's fine. They're not topics that engage posters - nor should anyone be compelled to engage with them. I don't take the rejection of the topics in which I'm interested personally.

I think there are plenty of discussions that could be happening on the feminism boards that start from the shared assumption that sex matters etc, but then move on to other topics. so

• how do we ensure equal pay?
• what do we think of porn? is all porn always bad?
• what practical steps should schools take to reduce assaults of girls?
• what would improve care around pregnancy & childbirth?

All those conversations could & should be happening on the FWR boards somewhere, and sometimes it feels like they are drowned out by the discussion of gender & trans issues.

Apologies I meant to reference the PP who mentioned the vile behaviour of teen boys towards a teen girl at school.

At the point in which the discussion inevitably came to empathy and understanding for why so many teen girls find that a trans identity has protective qualities against this kind of experience, what would happen? Deletion? Scolding? Whole thread moved?