My teen daughter has burst out crying and gone upstairs because we were discussing Maya Forstater

Going riiiiight back to the OP, 'it's not my educate' = 'I can't defend my point'.

I see Graun writers frequently use this device plus variations such as 'i could write a long explanation as to why...' (well go ahead then! Just writing that doesn't mean you've automatically proved your point) and it drives me nuts.

@Wrongsideofhistorymyarse and @PastMyBestBeforeDate thanks for letting me know :)

Lady woman or women is sufficient.

Lady thanks for explaining. There's no evidence that, in the UK, transwomen are at more risk proportionally than women. If there were data we would know about it. (For the record I'm glad to know that no transwomen were murdered in the UK last year).

Please don't use cis or non trans. Women and transwomen work just fine.

Is it something she's maybe battling with herself?

They don't have a choice. Peer pressure these days is about always toeing the party line. Look at what happened to Maya. The tears are because they are getting the cognitive dissonance and they love you but NOT to challenge you would be viewed as actively violent.

Please stop saying ‘c*s’. Makes my teeth itch.

Like I said, this is my first time contributing on a trans thread. My main point was completely different (that being not GC doesn't make anyone stupid etc).

She has actually said many offensive things then OP.
She needs to learn that she can't say such things without it causing damage.

generally dd hasn't had that at school. I was talking about her and her friends rather than a wider section of society.

Floppy I was thinking more of rape, violence, pregnancy and pay discrimination. As far as I know dd and her Y9 friends haven't had that happen yet!

they have big stuff too but it's different I think. mainly the option of opting out feels real to them.

Given the stuiff about normalization of sexual assults and horrific laguage towards girls in schools that been in headlines recently I do wonder if some think this.

I am a bit gutted because I have been in a chat group specifically to talk about this with some pals who were all very much on board at first.

I messaged about maya when the ruling came out and one of them replied that she was leaving the group because she had changed her mind about a lot of it.

I was gob smacked but she has a teenage daughter who has always thought we were lame old dinosaurs when it comes to this issue.

My pal also read this article about maya :

www.independent.co.uk/author/robin-moira-white

She said she thinks maya is a really transphobic woman and I should not support her. She completely shut down the conversation before I could explain what the problems with that piece were.

I feel so angry - not with my pal, that will work out, but that White was able to publish what is such a nasty, biased piece and noone has ever bought her up on it.

I wonder how her book is doing?.....

LadyoflittleLeisure

117 women were murdered in the UK last year. During that time no transwomen were murdered in the UK.

Don't you dare go on about transwomen suffering more than women.

www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/read-this/list-of-uk-women-killed-by-men-in-the-last-year-read-by-mp-jess-phillips-in-parliament-3163774

Happily, not one transwoman was killed in the UK in the last year.

"They are lucky enough not to have encountered the big stuff that turns women into feminists."

they have big stuff too but it's different I think. mainly the option of opting out feels real to them.

If I'm 100% honest as a reasonably privileged cis, straight white woman who is unaffected by trans issues I don't really have as much emotional connection to the debates as I do to say the sexual violence issues etc. I just don't think (as some on this thread seem to be suggesting) that only stupid, immature people take a non GC stance. It's not that simple imo.

It's affecting my children but I don't think they are stupid far from it.

They do see some of the contrdictions and ask questions about some of the odder statements they've encountered but DS did say he knew to keep his mouth shut on this subject in school rather than ask questions

I know DD1 friendship group started with pronouns and serial name changes which family isn't always made aware of after the school apparently started teaching about trans stuff in assemblies - which I only found out about after they'd happend because my kids talk to me.

I don't think this is a youth lead movement but something much more cynical and exploitative and for some more vunerable a dangerous movement.

I'm female and have two teenager DDs of course I care about sexual violence - partly why I'm so concerned about mixed sex facilities as they have much higher rate of sexuals attacks and increasingly with tech advances voyeurism and unknown recordings. They both did guides - why I was so horrified to learn about the huge safe guarding breaches being proposed by that organisation due to their trans policy.

Dd's little group of female friends are all identifying as LGBTQ+ and they all go by non-gendered nicknames. I've settled for her admitting she knows people can't change sex.
At the moment though it's mostly as far as I can tell, girls identifying as boys or non-binary. It's all non-threatening in their eyes. It's all social media and blue hair. They are lucky enough not to have encountered the big stuff that turns women into feminists.

My DD and I had to agree not to discuss trans when she was say 15 to 21 after many disagreements. She apologised to me the other year aged 23 and said she couldn't understand how she's been so blooming brainwashed. God love her.

I met a 20 year old this week who was amazed to be talking to a real life TERF, she was also horrified to find she could not find the words to tell me how wrong I am because normally like all the reasons for why I'm wrong are just so like obvious and god why can't she get it across to me that trans women are women ... it was all a bit painful. She's at a RG uni.

Naomi Hersi may have been "misgendered" but Naomi being a trans victim of murder is well known. I think it's highly unlikely that the murder of people who are out as trans to family and friends wouldn't be recognised as a trans murder.

[quote EmbarrassingAdmissions]"The number of trans people murdered in the UK is not officially recorded and murder victims may be misgendered, such as in media coverage of the murder of Naomi Hersi, a trans woman of colour from London, in 2018."

It is, indeed, regrettable that it's the ONS that ought to be the source of verifiable statistics and it is the ONS that has recently been attempting to put through data collection that would obscure matters even further.

What would be your preferred estimate for the number of these murder victims in the UK? Would it vary from Factcheck's estimate of 1 per year?

www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-how-many-trans-people-murdered-uk[/quote]
Karen ingala smith wrote a very good blog about it earlier in the year

kareningalasmith.com/2021/04/21/counting-dead-trans-people/

If I'm 100% honest as a reasonably privileged cis, straight white woman who is unaffected by trans issues

All women are affected by women's sex based rights, and most women on this board don't identify as "cis" so where do we fit in?