Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

My teen daughter has burst out crying and gone upstairs because we were discussing Maya Forstater

337 replies

Bryonyshcmyony · 11/06/2021 12:24

It came up on the news and I said something like surely its obvious that biological sex is real. Gender identity isn't the same as biological sex. She said people on tiktok say that there is a chromosomal spectrum. I said if someone has a chromosomal abnormality that's not proof that biological sex doesn't exist. Then she cried, said how frustrated I make her and just wants to live in a world where transpeople are accepted for who they are and its not her job to educate me as - and I quote - an ignorant old person.

I'm actually quite hurt. I don't want her to hate me! Obviously it's just a subject that is completely out of bounds. Anyone else faced similar?

OP posts:
BeingATwatItsABingThing · 11/06/2021 12:37

It sometimes feels like their generation have been brainwashed and/or lost all capacity for independent thought.

If it makes you feel any better, I probably would have agreed with them when I was a bull-headed teen. I have since grown up and understand things so much more now. I hope a lot of this wokeness will be grown out of.

corlan · 11/06/2021 12:36

The first time this issue cropped up with my eldest DD she literally ran out of the room shouting 'You can't say that!' I think I'd suggested that if Caitlin Jenner has a penis, they are probably not a woman.
We just go easy on each other - we disagree, but that's allowed.
( However she's wrong and I know that one day she will agree with me 😉)

Original poster
Bryonyshcmyony · 11/06/2021 12:35

@newdocket

I really sympathise. It's upsetting and I've had similar episodes with my teen DD. It sometimes feels like their generation have been brainwashed and/or lost all capacity for independent thought.

What upsets/enrages me most is the combination of her disgust at my wrongheadedness along with her lack of acceptance that e.g., Tiktok is a reliable source of information. One incident involved her wanging on about JKR being a transphobe. I asked her what the evidence for this was. She could not come up with anything better than 'everyone knows she is'. I asked her to read JKR's letter and then tell me whether she is transphobic and if so why. She just wouldn't engage with it.

Yep. We've had similar. The crying then happens. They've been brainwashed and when reality sneaks in it makes them panic. It's actually quite frightening
OP posts:
BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz · 11/06/2021 12:35

Teenagers love a "cause". Even more so if it's one that they can argue with their folks about.

Biological sex is a basic fact. Acknowledging that doesnt make a person transphobic. She has a lot to learn.

newdocket · 11/06/2021 12:34

I really sympathise. It's upsetting and I've had similar episodes with my teen DD. It sometimes feels like their generation have been brainwashed and/or lost all capacity for independent thought.

What upsets/enrages me most is the combination of her disgust at my wrongheadedness along with her lack of acceptance that e.g., Tiktok is a reliable source of information. One incident involved her wanging on about JKR being a transphobe. I asked her what the evidence for this was. She could not come up with anything better than 'everyone knows she is'. I asked her to read JKR's letter and then tell me whether she is transphobic and if so why. She just wouldn't engage with it.

Original poster
Bryonyshcmyony · 11/06/2021 12:33

@senua

Anyone else faced similar? What, a teenager being moody? Plenty! Just laugh. It infuriates them. Or make a tik-tok yourself and embarrass them.Grin

Softly, softly with teenagers. It's a long old project.

Yeah. I think if I'd laughed she'd have run away. Not sure why I bothered trying to raise them as feminists when they are willing to give it all up so easily.
OP posts:
Beamur · 11/06/2021 12:33

You probably can't have one simple conversation that will express the nuances of this.
Yesterday's decision is actually very simple but stunningly important. The right to hold your opinion (assuming it's GC) is, and has always been (since the EA came into force) a protected characteristic.
It doesn't condone harassment. But does clarify that the GC position is valid and protected in law. You should be free from being discriminated against for holding those views and do not require re-education.

senua · 11/06/2021 12:32

Anyone else faced similar?
What, a teenager being moody? Plenty!
Just laugh. It infuriates them.
Or make a tik-tok yourself and embarrass them.Grin

Softly, softly with teenagers. It's a long old project.

Original poster
Bryonyshcmyony · 11/06/2021 12:30

Yeah I'm very pissed off. It's really unlike her we normally have good debates on things. She's going to a RG uni to study philosophy and it took all my strength to say you won't last 5 MINUTES.

OP posts:
BeingATwatItsABingThing · 11/06/2021 12:30

Luckily my DD1 is only 7 but I hope the world will have seen reason by the time she is old enough to be aware of it all.

I would be encouraging her to do her own research into this and, when she can have a civilised discussion without resorting to name calling (something TRAs aren’t very good at!), you will accept her apology for calling you ignorant and old.

Marguerite2000 · 11/06/2021 12:28

No I've never faced it. I'd probably just tell my kids to get over it, tbh. I don't pander to that kind of teenage shit.

SirSamuelVimes · 11/06/2021 12:26

If my child called me an ignorant old person I would be coming down on that hard. Who the fuck does she think she is?

As for using tik tok for scientific education... Words fail me.