My teen daughter has burst out crying and gone upstairs because we were discussing Maya Forstater

MadamBatty 😂.

Just rise above OP. Unfortunately they are brain washed at school. I am fortunate in that my teens zone out of the PSRE lessons and the various talks/assemblies.

She is an academic, and as far as I can tell from her twitter all her friends and colleagues either speak woke or totally avoid comment on GC things.

Yep. We've had similar. The crying then happens. They've been brainwashed and when reality sneaks in it makes them panic. It's actually quite frightening

This sounds like a case study in cognitive dissonance! Deeply held delusional beliefs, which have developed in an atmosphere devoid of facts, collide with reality, head explodes.

Will she be allowed quote tik Tok as a source at her university?

Yes, otherwise it's idiotphobia. That's a phobia, you know.

Will she be allowed quote tik Tok as a source at her university?

Luckily my teen daughter understands that people can't change sex. However my 35 year old is wokiness personified.

I'm a bigot... apparently.

We don't discuss these matters anymore. I've written about him before under another username. Maybe one day he'll see the sunlight!!

I had a similar encounter with my younger friend. She said that JK Rowling was transphobic. I said I disagreed, and asked her to point out the parts of the post that were transphobic. She said she hadn't read it. The discussion continued and I tried to explain to her that a definition is non informative and useless if it contains the word it's trying to define (she said 'a woman is anyone who says they are a woman') and I asked her to indicate some features that women have, so I might be able to identify who is or is not a woman. She absolutely exploded and said she 'didn't fucking care' if her definition was faulty, and she stomped off. The anger and frustration simmer just beneath the surface. I think it's because they have to confront the sheer cognitive dissonance of it all, which must be very distressing.

She's going to an RG university? Are you paying for it? Perhaps she needs to think about whether she wants to be funded by some evil old bigot. Perhaps you need to ask yourself whether paying for her is value for money, when she can get all the education she seems to think she needs from Tik Tok.

One transwoman I know I’ve had to block on Facebook because of their beliefs on JKR being transphobic. Took all my effort not to scream.

It's upsetting because they know its nonsense. It's cognitive dissonance.

No one would burst into tears and run away if you said "even if you dye blonde hair it's still brown underneath".

They might roll their eyes or wonder what on earth your point was, but it's true, so not worth a quarrel.

God there's always a cause for the teens, isn't there? I mean, I can't really remember but I'm sure I thought my mother was a pathetic old person who didn't understand the world because she was like, old etc (my Dad escaped because he was blithely uninterested in engaging with us at that level).

It's very annoying and I'm sure when mine is older it'll be something too. But I think it's a phase that all teenagers have to go through, just the topic changes.

Still though, she should speak to you with respect in your own home. There is a line that she shouldn't cross, no matter how frustrated she is with your tragic oldness.

Don't want to sound patronising but they've grown up in a relatively safe world where mum deals with fighting the patriarchy, DV is something that happens to 'other people' and there's hope they'll be treated equally in the world, jobs, family etc. Once they actually start dealing with these things themselves without mum as the safety net they'll have to see it for what it is and the GC arguments will make more sense.

Smile sweetly and answer “aah yes I remember being just like you, oh the innocence of youth”
Goes down like a lead brick

Honestly she’s just being a teen - they know everything!

Just an observation, but it seems to be mainly girls mentioned on this thread. Does anyone with sons have the same “be kind” and gender is a spectrum with their sons?

"People on TikTok say", oh well case closed if people on TikTok say. I have a 22 year old daughter with whom I can't discuss this subject at all as she gets shouty and flounces (basically because she doesn't have an argument).

As you said, chromosomal abnormality is just that, an abnormality. Some people are born with six toes on each foot, it doesn't mean the number of toes a human has are on a spectrum!

I blame all the "be kind" twaddle, aimed at girls and designed to restrict critical thinking. Hopefully they will grow out of it eventually.

I think the shell of reality around some of these ideas is very thin. Fine when you only discuss it with people who agree with you. Deeply uncomfortable when challenged. I think this is one of the reason it's so upsetting.

Sadly if she's going to study Philosophy she might find everyone agrees with her.

My DH is an ex-Philosopher and attends a few online reading groups. He sometimes runs a few names past me who are going to talk about feminism and I have to say 'For Goodness sake, don't ask any questions at this talk or they'll chuck you out of the group'

Sometimes its speakers he has met who appeared perfectly normal in every other way.

And no, there is never any evidence that any of them has ever met an actual transwoman in real life. It's all posh women with luxury beliefs.

She must be about the same age as my DD judging by the uni comment, I've had to just keep the trans discussion with DD quite subtle to avoid too many rows as I think that just makes them cling onto their viewpoint all the more, I remember being the same.

DD was vehemently on my GC side a couple of years ago, couldn't believe people were questioning the truth of biological sex, but lately she's been swayed over to the 'be kind', 'it's a spectrum' side very strongly, think it's what they hear from around them and you just have to hold fast and wait for common sense to evolve.

Definitely wouldn't tolerate the rudeness though but I'd stick to small manageable discussions though and agree to disagree when it starts getting heated, if you push the topic too much she'll just dig her heels in. It's very frustrating but I think they'll come round when adult life hits.