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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

'Working with Stonewall is no longer compatible with NHS values' | Comment | Health Service Journal

117 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 11/06/2021 10:00

"Nurses speak of their distress at being instructed to insist to their female patients that there are no men present, in the clear presence of a man identifying as a woman. Who can they turn to when their employer, union and regulator are all Stonewall Champions?"

www.hsj.co.uk/workforce/working-with-stonewall-is-no-longer-compatible-with-nhs-values/7030259.article

via on twitter twitter.com/MerchedCymru

OP posts:
Rejoiningperson · 11/06/2021 12:43

The HSJ is indeed well read and well regarded.

I do find it extraordinary that most policies on single sex wards in the NHS have just thrown in a whole huge paragraph saying that anyone who identifies as a woman, even if they have a great big beard called John, can go into the women’s ward. This is without any proper consultation on the consequences. Sleeping overnight, changing, undressing, recovering or being ill are hugely vulnerable things for most people to go through. A man who say, is a serial sex offender could just say he’d like to go into the women’s ward and he will be able to. None of this has been thought through.

There are mixed wards and spaces but they have more protection and privacy in place - so hospitals often already have this option for those who’d like a third space.

Also, single sex wards are not just a preference. I think that this is where things have gone so wrong. If they were just a preference, with no real need on safety, privacy and dignity - then there wouldn’t be a problem. However when hospitals did bring in more mixed wards over the last half of the century - problems did arise and patients became distressed. Sexual harassment was higher in mixed wards also (there is evidence for this)

The NHS is built on medicine which is ‘first do no harm’. I think that there needs to be a professional review and at the very least a roll back and revert to policies on biological sex - then all relevant parties and evidence can be discussed properly until a solution can be found.

andyoldlabour · 11/06/2021 12:25

"However, it is not possible to guarantee to any patient that they will only be treated by a clinician assigned to a specific gender at birth and, as an organisation that prides itself on our commitment to diversity and inclusion, nor would we wish to do so."

That is pretty disgusting IMHO and may even be a potential breach of medical ethics. The patient's needs should always come first.

"is based on four common, basic prima facie moral commitments - respect for autonomy, beneficence, non-maleficence, and justice - plus concern for their scope of application. It offers a common, basic moral analytical framework and a common, basic moral language. Although they do not provide ordered rules, these principles can help doctors and other health care workers to make decisions when reflecting on moral issues that arise at work."

www.bmj.com/content/309/6948/184

JustHereWithMyPopcorn · 11/06/2021 12:25

Fantastic article, spot on.

GNCQ · 11/06/2021 12:11

@LeoOrTheo

Are patients allowed to ask for another nurse / doctor or chaperone on the grounds that they feel uncomfortable with the one they were allocated regardless of the HCP's sex or gender?
I believe so, yes. You can just say "I'm not comfortable with this HCP"

If however you say "I asked for a female HCP but got a TW" you'll be in trouble. You aren't supposed to mention it, but you can site a vague reason.

Obviously not everyone has read the complete rulebook of gender woo.

Iggi999 · 11/06/2021 12:11

Even after "apologising" that hospital says this:
However, it is not possible to guarantee to any patient that they will only be treated by a clinician assigned to a specific gender at birth and, as an organisation that prides itself on our commitment to diversity and inclusion, nor would we wish to do so.

WarriorN · 11/06/2021 12:09

Great article.

I can't work out how to post the minutes from the meeting Baroness Nicholson was part a couple of weeks ago, but it describes details of all of the above.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 11/06/2021 12:05

@LeoOrTheo

Are patients allowed to ask for another nurse / doctor or chaperone on the grounds that they feel uncomfortable with the one they were allocated regardless of the HCP's sex or gender?
A woman who needed trauma-informed care was labelled a bigot for requesting a female HCP.

The mammographer signed one letter confirming she was female and another letter was placed in Dimyon’s medical records. But two weeks ago she saw her letters highlighted by the trust as examples of “unacceptable” and “highly discriminatory” communications in guidelines to support trans patients and staff.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3763519-A-woman-who-asked-for-her-NHS-breast-screening-to-be-carried-out-by-a-female-born-clinician-was-pilloried-as-a-transphobe-by-a-hospital-trust

www.brightonandhovenews.org/2019/12/09/hospital-apologises-to-rape-victim-for-branding-her-request-for-same-sex-breast-screening-medic-as-transphobic/

LeoOrTheo · 11/06/2021 11:58

Are patients allowed to ask for another nurse / doctor or chaperone on the grounds that they feel uncomfortable with the one they were allocated regardless of the HCP's sex or gender?

InvisibleDragon · 11/06/2021 11:57

This is a fantastic article.

Would anyone be too for some FOI requests to NHS trusts for:

  • their policy on admitting trans patients
  • any equality impact assessments they have carried out to understand the effect of their policies on people with other protected characteristics
  • any guidance for staff around managing risk to vulnerable patients e.g. trans man on a mental health ward with male sex offenders; trans woman with a forensic history of assaulting women on a ward with vulnerable women
BrilliantBetty · 11/06/2021 11:53

My workplace are now in Stonewall's pocket, too.

We work with many, many vulnerable people especially women and children.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 11/06/2021 11:46

I see the men in the comments are turning out in force to protect the rights of those whom they preferred to be centred in All The Things.

I expect them to be joined by plenty of women who are also desperate to centre etc.

Grellbunt · 11/06/2021 11:45

Fabulous!

zanahoria · 11/06/2021 11:39

"My concerns are three-fold. First, and most importantly, Stonewall’s influence is undermining our ability to keep our patients safe. Secondly, it stifles free speech and creates a culture of fear amongst some staff. Thirdly, it gives misleading and potentially unlawful advice, opening up NHS organisations to litigation and reputational damage.

bang

bang

bang

three shots on target

I know it was posted up thread but that pararaph is so damned good, I may have to mermorize it

OvaHere · 11/06/2021 11:36

Really good article. Very clear in articulating dangerous policy.

StellaAndCrow · 11/06/2021 11:32

@FindTheTruth

"Stonewall’s divisive approach". Divisive was used by Simon Fanshawe on R4 TP this week too. Accurate word that, Divisive.
Yes, and Maya's judgement has hopefully reminded people of organisations' responsibilities under the equality act to foster good relations between people of different protected characteristics.
StellaAndCrow · 11/06/2021 11:30

www.hsj.co.uk/comment/the-bedpan-gps-are-scared--i-dont-blame-them/7024816.article

The comments underneath are the most interesting part, and a reminder that many women of FWR work in the health service :)

StellaAndCrow · 11/06/2021 11:29

@TurquoiseBaubles

Has anyone else noticed the link on that page to an article about Susie Green from April 2019?

It's worth reading Hmm

Yes I was just reading that - Susie Green bigging up Mermaids and complaining about GPs and CAMHS. They can't have it both ways - claim gender dysphoria is not a mental health issue, then complain about this: "Many young people with gender dysphoria referred to CAMHS teams by their GPs are sent right back. “This is gender dysphoria, we don’t do gender dysphoria,” is often the message, says the Mermaids chief. This is strictly accurate - gender dysphoria is no longer classed as a mental health condition, but Ms Green says this is too often a convenient excuse for struggling CAMHS services to offload anxious, depressed and, sometimes, suicidal children."
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 11/06/2021 11:15

I wonder if there will be competition to sign up Kate Grimes to Sex Matters or any of the other groups, if she's willing?

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 11/06/2021 11:05

@TurquoiseBaubles

Has anyone else noticed the link on that page to an article about Susie Green from April 2019?

It's worth reading Hmm

I liked the addition to that article Wink

Did Mermaids ever set up those 45 support groups they got all that lottery money for?

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 11/06/2021 11:01

@FindTheTruth

I've noticed the comments under the article from NHS people involved with Stonewall
Some of whom are coming up with wholly inaccurate descriptions of the LGB Alliance.

I wonder when the commenters will deign to reflect on why they want to know the identity of the anon people. What would they do if they identified them?

FindTheTruth · 11/06/2021 10:57

I've noticed the comments under the article from NHS people involved with Stonewall

5475878237NC · 11/06/2021 10:55

Thanks for sharing.

TurquoiseBaubles · 11/06/2021 10:53

Has anyone else noticed the link on that page to an article about Susie Green from April 2019?

It's worth reading Hmm

FindTheTruth · 11/06/2021 10:53

I hope all the points in this article are fed back to the women's health consultation which ends on Sunday

ChattyLion · 11/06/2021 10:50

I have to comment twice on that article because she has absolutely nailed it. Wow. Thank you so much Kate Grimes.