All school toilets in Brighton to become gender neutral

I am claustrophobic and really hate the toilets that are floor to ceiling, completely enclosed. They remind me of coffins. I also have a fear of being 'locked in' and unable to escape, so I also only use the lock when I can physically see the mechanism working. If there is space at the bottom of the cubicle I can just wedge my bag in the gap so people can see it. When I'm out with my Mum I can cope with enclosed cubicles because she will stand outside and guard the door so I don't have to lock it, but if I'm on my own which I usually am, this is obviously not an option.

Completely missing the point of the thread I know, but just another perspective. And at least in single sex facilities I would still be pretty happy to leave my door unlocked, rather than risk a terrifying panic attack. If there were men directly outside the cubicle then the freedom for me to do that in safety has been taken away.

When mixed sex toilets are well designed there should be no problem just as with individual disabled toilets. However, this is not what is being proposed in many instances. Few schools will have enough room for individual rooms like disabled toilets. Therefore we will have a mixed sex area with cubicles separated by flimsy dividers with full length doors but no washing facilities, to wash your hands , so you will have to take your place beside all the other boys and girls. A potential nightmare for some girls with difficult periods.

@Woeismethischristmas
Yes my work place toilets are very thick walls and doors so even odd a corridor you feel private.

No way would that be the same as a normal cubicle (which age basically made of cardboard) having a slightly bigger door or sides.

It was my understanding that some sections of the trans lobby are opposed to 'gender neutral' WCs alongside single sex designated WCs as they only want the option of using the WC designated for their chosen gender to be made available to people, no third space.

The local high school have these and honestly it’s fine they are essentially separate loos accessed from the corridor. I’ve used them myself and feel they’re a lot more private than conventional toilets. They all have sanitary supplies and bins in. I think it’s important to distinguish between building gender neutral toilets within a new building in which case Proper walls and doors etc and it’s fine and modifying existing toilets to be gender neutral by changing signage and extending cubicle doors and walls which to me does not give enough privacy or safety.

Yes I can see in the work place it would also present the same issue. I think its also surprising common that miscarriages happen in public toilets aswell. But adults can risk assess better than children can. It's hard enough fir kids to get out of a lesson to use the loo let alone dragging a friend along too. Also teachers are responsible for the children and its a big burden to place on them without the back up of the kids who would usually alert them.to problems but who now will be unable to see and be aware of the problem.

Adults may also be able able talne theor bag with their phone with them.in the work place ..kids in school not so much.

If you google deaths in public toilets they are in ones that are completely enclosed. Some people have been there for hours before they are found. Remember schools are (usually) open to the community too in the evenings.
Where do you go when you feel ill?
How long does a teacher wait whilst doing a ‘fire drill sweep’ if the door is locked but it’s silent?
self harming/sex/drugs all happen in loos too. Much easier in an enclosed cubicle.

I wonder how this is managed in work places and public places with single toilets off a corridor. I can think of loads of places like that. A pull cord?

Surely spy cameras could be put in any toilet?

To be honest I’m not sure that girls are anymore tidy thanks boys, certainly not in my house. Dealing with other people lack of cleanliness is just an issue with any public/shared toilet isn’t it:

That does not remove the risk of spy cameras, or a medical emergency , or having to wipe boys piss off the seat befere using.

As above if schools are moving towards unisex toilets why not have single toilets (with thick or double doors) along a corridor. That’s what a lot of work spaces and cafes have now. I imagine that is better for bullying generally too, if toilets are individual rather than a toilet block.

Aside from the points made by other posters about protecting female spaces, boys toilets always stink- pee on the floor and the seat- yuk- why should girls have to put up with that?

I really can't see an issue.
It really doesn't matter if you can't see an issue. What we know is that a significant proportion of girls do have an issue and if they don't feel comfortable using the toilets they will drink less so they don't have to use them or stay at home when tgey have their periods. So they are not fit for purpose.

Completely contained Mixed sex toilet blocks; which are being discussed here, have a mix of pros and cons.
I work in a secondary school and the girls loos are always a favoured place for girls to hang out together at breaks to do whatever they like to do (usually a sneaky phone check, hair, makeup, chat etc). If someone in a loo is caught short with her period and needs some sanpro then she just asks her friend outside to pass her something. This would be difficult in mixed sex toilet block. No girl wnats to be heard shouting 'I've just come on, anyone you got a tampon?'
We've also had to several incidents when students have collapsed in the cubicle; open top and bottom of doors and side partitions, whereby their mate was able to look under door almost immediately and could see what had happened and get help.
Sadly it will be the girls who will be affected and suffer the most.....again.

I know additiknal space is Usually suggested as the answer and if we were talking about public toilets and toilets in the work place where there are adults using it that would be fine.

In a school however we are dealing with children. Children need adults to step in and uphold safeguarding where they don't have the ability to notice they need it or the life skills ajd experience to make the informed decision themselves.

In a school I would worry about children being forced to prove themselves as allies using them. Or being places in danger by doing so believing its solving the problem

Fully enclosed units whilst have theor advantages also present the danger of a child passing out /collapsing and no one being any the wiser. Especially as children will not necessarily have had a long time to learn to manage their diabetes asthma or allergies..

They also have the danger of being shoved in and assaulted without anyone knowing.

The first layer of protection of being able to challenge someone of the opposite sex from being there has been removed. There is also the issue of spy cameras which can now be purchased on amazon or ebay in.seconds.

Adults need to learn when it's appropriate to say know. Because even if it upsets children and makes them angry it's sometimes just something you have to do to keep them.safe.

And what may well happen is boys have the boys space and the mixed sex space and girls only have the one space.so again girls lose out on the chance of extra facilities due to biological needs they take longer and always need nore than what they have. But instead anything extra that gets built is something that will likely just he handed over to the boys.

What if a young girl wants to ask her friend if she has a pad/tampon she can have where is the space for them to have such conversations. Or is struggling with period pains and her friends are supporting her. Men don’t realise abs many just don’t cate how much girls and women relax and talk in female only spaces as we feel totally safe

And I’m quite sure many teenage boys do not want to be present during that conversation

Besides, The Argus isn't what you'd call the most reliable news source, it's renowned in Brighton for being a bit of a rag and often completely inaccurate.

I'm not sure how scaremongering like this is helpful.
It's not ALL toilets, it is advice that some toilets should be for anyone to use. There are still girls and boys in Brighton Schools, and in reality there are also some 'For everyone' toilets too. There will always be separate loos.
It's more ADDITIONAL provision, which is being asked for by some pupils.

Wow, swiping in and logging loo visits....... no thank you.

So not one of those teenage boys who ask for nude pics will ever think to install a spy camera? Or have the skill to do it? So naïve.

If they can never be in the girls' space at all they cannot do this without risking being caught. Floor to ceiling cubicles and permission to be there protects the potential electronic voyeur - they have access and privacy to set up their kit. Most boys would not do this but in a secondary school of 1800 students with 900 boys it only takes one and dozens (maybe hundreds depends on how long before it is found) of girls will have their young lives extremely seriously affected.

Many schools use electronic systems - cards or finger prints to pay for lunch or access the computer suite. If all toilets had this - you could only get in swiping your card - and they were single sex, then they would be much safer. The old style school bully hanging out in the loo would stop too because heads of year would know that he or she was in there and not in lessons or occupying the room unreasonably long like it was the base of their crime empire and they could be moved on. Schools mostly have CCTV on their corridors these days too so kids borrowing or misusing access cards could be picked up too. It is not the 70s any more!

If they're floor to ceiling with a waste bin they're not really sharing a space.

Given todays report regarding sexual harassment in schools, ALL toilets should be single sex. We need to uphold 'sex'. Perhaps boys need to understand from an early age that transgender women will be in their space. Lets normalise this, let's educate boys to accept this as normal instead of making girls/women budge over.

Much as I dislike this 'toolkit', it isn't saying all school toilets but that some gender neutral should be available. The issue is probably that schools can't afford to convert or build new ones.