Starmer and the Labour Party Really Cannot Read the Room

What other identity issues shouldn't we have a public discussion about? Is it just a coincidence that it's the one that happens to have impact on women and children we have to be quite about?

I thought this Twitter thread was interesting. Not sure what his proof is but I can believe the tories are using trans rights as part of the culture war narrative and drumming it up quite deliberately.

mobile.twitter.com/nicktolhurst/status/1236287433504948224

I was mostly joking, but I think expecting Labour to change track is futile.

If we are serious about protecting the rights of women and girls, safeguarding, freedom of speech and association, biological reality, the rights of LGB people then maybe joining the party of political power is the way to do it.

There’s only 180, 000 of them. What if 50, 000 of us joined? At least in the Conservative party MPs and members can speak freely.

I can’t believe I am even saying this, I have never voted Tory in my life but the betrayal of women and children and the abandonment of common sense and reason by the parties of the left has brought me to this point.

Do you think any of the parties read this and actually give a crap?

Does anyone actually want my vote.

I fear they just don’t give a fuck about me/us.

I think the pressure will be huge to sanction Rosie Duffield. I don't trust him not to.

Apparently many strategists believe that Labour can’t win unless in coalition with the SNP and Lib Dem’s so perhaps this is just a calculated move to get their support.

Ah ok, that sounds plausible.

Not read the thread (10 pages!)

For the first time in the local elections I did not vote Labour. In fact I didn’t vote (breaks my heart and I’m sorry past Suffragettes).

I won’t ever vote Conservative, I’ve worked all my life with vulnerable children for local government and I’ll never forgive the Torries for the cuts they’ve brought about. And their desire to sell of the NHS.

So I’m in in voting waste land.

Once upon a time I would have voted Green. But that won’t be happening again.

Apparently many strategists believe that Labour can’t win unless in coalition with the SNP and Lib Dem’s so perhaps this is just a calculated move to get their support.

However, I think that he has underestimated the feelings of female voters, and in particular the impact of aligning himself with people heavily influenced by anti-feminist ideology. (See today’s reports on Oxfam).

Re: letters. I suppose one could book an appointment with one's MP (or Labour councillor / candidate) and use it to literally read out the letter to them.

Although if it's zoom they'll probably cut you off.

In person would be better. You could leave the letter on their desk.

For years women inside the Labour Party have been trying to have their voices heard, but I don't see any evidence they are being listened to

This only makes sense if you view a GRC as utterly meaningless, which is a kick in the teeth for the transsexuals who were supposed to be helped by the GRA 2004.

If Starmer were serious about this change to legislation he would be able to explain exactly how it is supposed to operate in practice, and the impact on existing law. However it doesn’t look as though he is even serious about being PM.

@Floisme, I don't disagree with your analysis but, ultimately, KS will only retain his job if he wins a GE.
Yes but, as things stand, he's not going to make it to a general election.

It's released the pressure on Benjamin Cohen very nicely, though. How long has he been sitting on that clip, I wonder?

@Floisme, I don't disagree with your analysis but, ultimately, KS will only retain his job if he wins a GE. Labour aren't as ruthless/efficient as the Tories at dispatching losers, but even they will eventually defenestrate a losing leader.

Blair would have been reading the comments sections of the Times, Telegraph and DM (about everything, not just self-ID). I suspect KS and his advisors only read the Guardian and Twitter. That is why they will never win a GE.

Perhaps we should all join the Tories.

It's important to keep our party memberships so that we can keep the pressure on them all.

Sue Pascoe is a member of the Conservative party. Sue is Area Chairman of North and East Yorkshire of the Conservative Women's Organisation.
Sue publicly welcomed the appointment of Mridul Wadhwa.
Sue is one of a group that wants Liz Truss replaced as Equality minister. Sue wants the GRA amendment and Sue wants self-id. Sue believes TWAW.

Right now, the Government can't return to full on TWAW because Keir Starmer is holding out, however wobbly he may be.

What do you think is going to happen if women start resigning and releasing the pressure on them all? Where will women's voices be then?

leader not lady, autocucumber is being freudian there.

I lolled. That might explain it

I am also a DV survivor and former Labour Party member. I won't vote for a party which is claiming to represent me as a woman better than the current government but in reality has utter contempt for me, my feelings, concerns and rights and puts out goady videos demonstrating this. And I won't be emotionally blackmailed into doing so. Hope that helps.

It seems to me he is reading the room - the room being his own party. No it doesn't feel like a great general election strategy but I doubt he's thinking that far ahead, right now his priority will be to keep his job.

We're always saying he only fights battles he can win yada yada and my guess is he's decied that if he tries to fight his own party on this, he will lose. It doesn't matter whether he really believes TWAW, the people he needs on his side if he's going to save his arse believe it. That's my reading anyway.

To the argument that we should fight this from the inside: 'This' is nothing new. I used to hang out with CLP types in the late 70s but didn't join for some time and the reason was their attitude to women was troubling even for those deeply sexist times. 'Stop moaning and, come the revolution, we'll see you right, did you put two sugars in that?' Kind of thing. The issues might have changed but the belief they are entitled to women's votes has not.

So stay and fight and the absolute best of luck to you but please desist with the finger wagging. As for being doing something other than moaning - I hear you, but I'm now wondering if supporting the SDP so they can field more candidates might be a more productive use of time.

I thought it was a good speech, even though i don't support self ID, which got just a small mention, it encompassed all rights not just trans.

However, i have experienced extreme domestic violence, the police were useless.
My friend was almost killed by her partner, again police didn't care.

the tories have closed down domestic violence refuges, allowed falling rape convictions, allowed our school kids to be sexually abused at school... fuck all done, indeed encouraged by our racist and misogynistic PM.

but lets have another tory govt by not voting Labour?

I suppose people can try it.

If I'm right, though, and the idealogues have taken over the Labour Party's machinery, it would be pointless.

"But everything else, and even possibly that, will be opened by an assistant and he will only read it or be told about it if the assistant judges that he needs to see it or be informed of its contents. If the assistant decides he doesn't, it will be answered by a staffer and filed, or ignored and binned."

Have you a better suggestion?

This is really depressing. I'm also worried that if Labour get into power they will roll back all the recent changes - total commitment to Stonewall, self-ID, hate crime etc.

Thinking about self-ID and the GRA, I think I'd be happy with people being able to self identity a gender identity, but for that gender identity to be totally separate from biological sex. So no more re-issuing birth certificates / passports / driving licences with the sex marker changed. But the opportunity to add an extra field with your gender identity (like how you can add a title to some web forms). That wouldn't be popular at all with people who want gender identity to replace sex, but it's a sensible middle ground that would expose the extremism of the hard-line self-ID position.