Starmer and the Labour Party Really Cannot Read the Room

Do we know what Andy Burnham’s take on this issue is? He looks likely to be Labour’s next leader.

Starmer has been such a disappointment all round. I voted for him in the leadership election partly because he was the only candidate not to sign that foolish ‘trans rights’ pledge but feel like I shouldn’t have bothered.

They'll get destroyed at the next election now.
Tories want to win, that's what they care about. They can read a room. I can see it now.
''Keir what is a woman?'
'Keir can men who rape women be placed in the female estate?'
They'll get destroyed, and they'll deserve it.
Disappointed I voted for him in the leadership election because he seems slightly more sane than any of the women on this issue.

I absolutely cannot vote Conservative.

I understand how you feel. I will vote conservative next time in the hope that an even bigger Tory majority might make Labour take notice and do some self reflection, although Labour are so far gone I'm not convinced even that will work but all other attempts to make our case have been ignored.

I don't care what stronger single sex exemptions he comes out with, the "I just wanna pee" crowd will have carte blanche. To pee. Or wank. Or film. Or assault.

If he's all about what looks progressive, wait till he hears about what Stonewall have tried to do to Allison Bailey.

I’ve been an interested political observer, if not activist, all my life. I have a degree in Politics (not that I’m claiming any great knowledge as a result!). Now between our repellent, mendacious, corrupt government and the gender madness sweeping the opposition, I feel like turning away from politics altogether.

I can’t quite believe this has happened. I’m now politically homeless. I was a lifelong Lib Dem voter until last year, gave up my party membership over this issue, but had genuine hope when Starmer was elected Labour leader, and was prepared to vote Labour at the next election.

So now who do I vote for? I absolutely cannot vote Conservative.

How can Starmer throw women under the bus like this?

So I don't think anyone should be withholding votes or resigning from anywhere on this issue alone.

It's not a single issue that has little impact on every day life. It will impact on millions of womens daily lives, from personal care to changing rooms, and to equal pay disputes.

It also demonstrates how important these issues are to the political class.

I agree that it's not just labour, but starmer is the one standing in a field promising to give men female id on their request, so he is the one I'm criticising now. If it was Johnson or whoever it is in charge of the LDs I'd be criticising them too.

The idea that women shouldn't prioritise themselves and vote for a party that is actively seeking to harm us, with the promise that it won't be as bad as it seems, is insulting.

For me, I don't see the point of reforming the GRA to make it easier to get a GRC, but then tightening up single sex spaces. Now same sex marriage is legal, what would be the point of a GRC?

Please god we get a proper result tomorrow in Maya's case.

@Tanith I think you’re right to question when it was filmed, the dubious timing, and the fact that it is not on KS feed. But it certainly does take the focus off BC nicely doesn’t it?

Well he, Karen White, that is, managed to convince enough decision makers that he was transgender. And that was because he said he was. So I don't care whether he is transgender or not. His word was enough.

Acceptance without exception.

But yes, therein lies the problem, how can anyone tell a transwomen from a pretend transwomen.

These tricky decisions will be outsourced to Stonewall (for a fee).

This was just last year:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-tory-mps-demand-reform-to-gender-recognition-act-gzrxd8dh5

No-one ever encourages Tories to stay at home or to resign their membership.
They have the same problem as the other parties; they're just not talking about it.

It isn't just a Labour problem, it isn't just a Left problem, it isn't even just a British problem or a UK problem. It's a worldwide issue affecting lots of countries and lots of political parties.

So I don't think anyone should be withholding votes or resigning from anywhere on this issue alone.

As a Labour party member, I absolutely do not want them to "read the room". I don't want them to do what is popular, I want them to do what they believe to be right.

It is a popularity contest, though. They need to attract more votes in more seats than any other party, otherwise they will just be an opposition party with smug members believing that their policies are the correct ones and everyone else is an idiot for not seeing it.

It's also possible to have popular policies that fit the ethos of the party. So they don't have to support the death penalty, or compromise on womens right and safeguarding, if those issues are important.

I suspect someone within the party knows this is unpopular, so is trying to containing it with the LGBT press. Which isn't good because they are looking dishonest as well as out of touch.

I suspect Lachlan Stuart is right: it's not an issue Keir Starmer has paid a great deal of attention to up until now and Social Media has been left to his advisors.

I really would like to know when that clip was recorded.

Time to bypass social media, I think.

we need a new political party don't we?

How does this differ from the last manifesto? Am I right in thinking it said both that they were committed to single sex spaces as per the EA, and also that they would reform the gra?

I think Cat is right that starmer/his advisers think this statement is a clever walk of the tightrope - not actually expanding on the manifesto position (for which Labour got plenty of criticism from TRAs as well as GCs), just emphasising the bits this audience (Pink News) wants to hear and not saying the other bits (stronger single sex exemptions) out loud.

And to be honest it's probably fine with 90% of people who might consider voting Labour, most of whom don't think this issue particularly important either way.

He can either continue to walk a wobbly line, pissing off everyone who feels strongly but not making any sort of impact with anyone else

Or he can go full TWAW/full self-ID and lose a lot of Red Wall/GC feminist votes

Or he can go full GC and lose all the Corbynistas and kiss goodbye to ever recovering labour's lost Scottish seats

He's in a bind - this issue is just a microcosm of the massive problem Labour has. None of its ideological constituencies are big enough to get it a parliamentary majority, and Labour can't find positions that bring its constituencies together. They had the same problem with Brexit.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think he's very good. But as cat says, if he goes the next leader will be full-on TWAW. I'm keeping my membership for now, if only to vote in the next leadership election...

#labourlosingwomen is trending AGAIN. Are they deaf, stupid or do they just really really hate women?

#Labourlosingwomen is trending

If Starmer isn't for total self ID as some have suggested then why doesn't he explain exactly what he means ? The Pink News video is being shared all over Twitter in a mostly negative light, it is being used by George Galloway to try and gain votes in Batley and Spen and no doubt will be picked up by the media. I am so fed up with Labour being useless.

At least I know where I stand with labour now Starmer has got off the fence and shown he has no care for women's rights.