Starmer and the Labour Party Really Cannot Read the Room

Gah. That was me trying to reply/quote this - I think the reason it didn’t work is it was already quoting a post:

From @MidClrgs:

How many people decide they won't vote anymore because of their stance on women, yet won't get their arse into gear, join the party and vote internally for the party line?

Take the Green Party, from what I've heard in their spring conference they had a motion for twaw (or not). 500 people voted out of 25000 members. The vote was for twaw by 80 votes. This could have been stopped if women put their money (£3 per month) to join the party to vote against this.

Same with the Labour Party. Honestly. Sitting on a high horse saying you could never vote for them anymore is frankly apathetic. Join, vote, turn internal policies around. Join every damn Party to do the same if you really care about women's rights.

I did. I wasted all of a beautiful sunny weekend at a computer to vote. It was heartbreaking 💔

I'm still a party member and contacted Starmer tonight in much the same style as Mollyollydolly. I've nearly left so many times over the last few years, not least because my CLP refuse to engage with the issue, but I still feel have more of a voice within the party than outside it. That's not a position that will go on indefinitely though if they continue to ignore the voices of women members with legitimate concerns.

Btw i think the Greens will start to rise in prominence in the uk and Labour will be even more marginalised in the next decade. They haven't got lost off piste. They somehow ended up using sat nav poorly and are in the wrong bloody mountain range.

MPs are elected to be representives of the people and to act in their best interests.

There are occasions where, this rightly means going against popular opinion in the national interest for the benefit of everyone or to protect as many people as possible from harm particularly if they are a minority group, vulnerable or unrepresented.

If someone can explain to me how self ID falls into this category and on balance reduces harm to as many members of the public as possible I'm all ears.

Instead it harms the interests of women politically and in terms of their representation and ability to point out sex based harms, is full on sexist in perpetuating gender stereotypes, is homophobic by saying that people no longer can be same sex attracted and must be open to heterosexual sex or are bigotted, is full on racist, massively over privileged and ignores the impact on more vulnerable groups in society who have no political voice but have human rights (eg female prisoners) and destroys womens access to sport at all levels and particularly harms elite competition, it also harms the health of women by compromising research and poses a health risk to trans people themselves and interestingly we have had the BMJ publish an article about the need to see sex and not hide it just this week. It also presents safeguarding issues of various kinds to minors (especially perhaps those with autism).

What harms exactly are we reducing in turn? And how many people does this benefit? Is this more or less than those actively harmed by the desire not to have nuance and a blanket no exceptions / no questioning rule.

Remind me again, what is the point in a public consultation if you only want to listen to views you already agree with and remind me again what is the point in having an MP who is actively campaigning and working against your interests and supports a policy which creates more harm than it reduces because of this failure to represent public concerns accurately and fairly?

I'm vehemently against populist government but if you are going to go against popular opinion, you damn well best have a good explanation and be prepared to defend your position with proper debate (which is at the heart of liberal democracy). People will generally come around to an idea if it has merit overall.

If you fail to do this, you cease to be a politician who is going to pay the price at the ballot box. Quite right because you have forgotten the central pillars and principles of being an MP in the UK's liberal democracy.

Its not necessarily about agreeing but it certainly is about understanding the issues fully and acknowledging potential problems and conflicts in order to be fair and just to all and to be able to legitimately argue you are doing the very best overall for your constituents.

Labour fundamentally have managed to get themselves into a shit creek scenario on this one with Starmer continuing to paddle upstream blithely unaware that the crocodiles are circling and about to eat his paddle and then him fairly soon.

What's the point of joining a party that at best isnt going to be in government, at worst will remove any safeguarding policies as soon as possible?

I don’t vote for a political party on a single issue, I vote for them based on how I think they will handle many issues, some examples below

• VAWG - what are they doing to reduce this
• Prisons, are prisoners kept safe and in dignity with some attempt at rehabilitation
• safeguarding children
• STEM education (and teaching biological lies is a concern)
• discrimination
• maternity rights
• health care for women
• online safety
• LGB rights

This is not a single issue

What the fucking fuckity fuck

FUCK

They can be a niche party representing a very specific interest group or viewpoint, with the aim to get a few MPs in and work on their special issues in policy development, questions to the PM, etc.

Or they can attempt to reflect the interests of larger groups of voters and possibly become the government.

Both of those are valid though it's a bit smug for a niche party to act as if it has some right to form a government when they know damn well they don't even want to represent a broad political consensus.

But Labours problem is bigger because they are no longer even representing their interest group - they are losing members hand over fist. Very soon their leaders may have no mandate to even act as a niche interest party. They then can sit at home and write letters about the right thing to do but expecting to get elected is pretty bleeding entitled.

Trouble is @Mollyollydolly, he is unlikely ever to see it. He might if there wre a deluge of such letters though.

Or a petition...?

Mollyollydolly Bloody well said!!

I've just banged off an email.. I've sent him loads .. this will be the last.
You lost my vote today having just watched the Pink News video.

"Dear Keir,
If you support self id you’ll never get in power. Have you any idea how many Labour women have been sending Liz Truss thank you cards?

How many are working with Baroness Nicholson and Lord Hunt to pull back this madness and it’s implications for safeguarding in prisons, NHS, schools, the law?

Have you heard of Maya Forstater, Keira Bell, Allison Bailey, do you understand what the argument is about? Its not about hating trans people it’s about women’s rights and safeguarding. Do you know how many women have been driven out of their CLPs by misogynistic men who treat women with contempt (including me)?

Could you never once find it in your heart to support Rosie Duffield and condemn the hate she receives every week on social media?

Have you listened to Simon Fanshawe or LGBAlliance or just the convoluted and dangerous position of Stonewall and Lord Cashman (who I once respected) who’s shown himself to be someone who has no consideration of women at all.

Have you any idea how toxic Pink News are to many lesbians and gay men? The vile rubbish they publish? Over 200 articles vilifying JK Rowling. Can’t believe you used them as your platform on top of everything else.

I voted for you in the leadership election because I thought you had some sense.

Now I’m sending Liz Truss thank you letters.

There are tens of thousands of us and if you don’t think Johnson will weaponise this at the next election you’re dafter than I thought.

Yours in disappointment

And I repeat again NO.

I'm damn well not paying subs and putting myself in the firing line AGAIN in CLP meetings full of lefty misogynistic men, plus my time and effort for a party that has no respect for me as a woman.

You're request is akin to asking me as a remainer to have joined the Brexit party.

I'm not propping them up any more.

They need to reach rock bottom before they rehabilitate themselves as an effective opposition.

cat but if they are all TWAW I don’t want them to win anyway. ☹️ And the membership fees are bloody expensive. Just funnelling money each month for Bromentum spad types to come out with this stuff. I can’t do it any more with Labour, it’s like eternally living with a lazy man who won’t ever change, but you keep hoping he will even as you wash another set of dishes.

This is a dark day for all politics, once a major party swings one way they all will follow.

Honestly, I cannot stress this enough: now, now, now is the moment to join Labour.

Starmer is probably the least TWAW Leader we are likely to get.

I really do worry about the next Leader.

Burnham met LGB Alliance and then backtracked because of the criticism. www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/andy-burnham-trans-community-support-17743380

And does he really not know that Pink News are toxic to a lot of lesbians, gay men and women generally, the way they've treated JK Rowling for goodness sake. I'm emailing him (again) I do wonder if emails get through to him.

Thanks @DeRigueurMortis, hadn’t seen that - doesn’t bode well.

Basically if Keir's been a disappointment then Andy is a fully paid up kool aid drinking adversary.

@Whatthechicken I think that’s exactly why Benjamin Cohen has released it today.

Predictably.....

Here you go....

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2019/jul/18/labour-mayors-urge-government-to-speed-up-gender-law-changes-england-wales

“ I agree that it's not just labour, but starmer is the one standing in a field promising to give men female id on their request, so he is the one I'm criticising now. If it was Johnson or whoever it is in charge of the LDs I'd be criticising them too.”

Oh, I’m not saying you shouldn’t criticise - quite the opposite! I think we should shout from the rooftops! And, while we’re about it, yes.we should find out where Boris Johnson and his Government stands on this.

What I am saying is that it’s all of them.
So what do we do about it? If we just stop voting and resign our party memberships, what’s that really going to achieve?