Telegraph: Police forces threatened with legal action over links to Stonewall

@Tibtom i just looked SW's definitions up again (pasted below)... i dont see anything about lesbians being transphobic if they don't get with transwomen. can you link me?

there's valid gender critical points and then there's just plain myths and fantasies, i dont particularly want to get involved with the latter

Gay

Refers to a man who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards men. Also a generic term for lesbian and gay sexuality - some women define themselves as gay rather than lesbian. Some non-binary people may also identify with this term.

Homosexual

This might be considered a more medical term used to describe someone who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards someone of the same gender. The term ‘gay’ is now more generally used.

Homophobia

The fear or dislike of someone, based on prejudice or negative attitudes, beliefs or views about lesbian, gay or bi people. Homophobic bullying may be targeted at people who are, or who are perceived to be, lesbian, gay or bi.

Lesbian

Refers to a woman who has a romantic and/or sexual orientation towards women. Some non-binary people may also identify with this term.

im all for more organisations than SW starting out but LGBA just seem a one-issue candidate

[quote DeeKavCoffee]@Tibtom don't be silly, that sounds like a far right talking point tbh. Obviously the largest lgbt organisation in the UK doesn't deny same sex attraction

We can criticise SW's involvement on trans issues but as many have said they have the longest track record of protecting lesbian and gay rights (although as a bi person they haven't been as great).

Repeating idiotic conspiracy theories doesn't strengthen our position, and makes us look like the loons they want us to be[/quote]
Have you actually read SW definition of homosexuality? Lesbians not being attracted to men who identify as women is transphobic!

all their work is just about trans stuff. like what? Specifically...

I'd like to understand the negative feeling around them in the same way as I do the negative feeling around Stonewall and many other organisations, whether I agree or not.

Campaigns to prevent the loss of sex based rights aren't anti trans.

Campaigns against teaching multiple gender identities to the youngest of kids aren't anti trans

Campaigns to increase the presence of LGB people are not anti trans

as i said, you do you but they're not getting a penny from me

Ye gods! They have had trustees for 8 bloody days.

It's called starting up. Setting out your stall.
Beginning...

They aren't God, are not resting having said "Let there be light"

I dont know what a monitor is and i dont work for pink news My impression of MN was that it was a place where things could be discussed, I didnt think there was a party line to toe (and won't be doing that ).

the sole focus of their campaign has been on trans issues...if i stood up tomorrow and said i was an lgb campaigner and please give me money to do it, i'd be laughed out of the building, quite rightly. deeds not words.

Interesting! I didn't say anything about YOU - you just assumed it, took a comment about specifically named others and chose to identify as one of them.

Out if interest which are you? Pink News? A monitor?

But back to the police forces being called out on their political activity very much in favour. Unfortunately here on MN many feminists have long being saying the more Stonewall overreach the more likely others will be affected when they go down. This is Stonewalls fault.

@CuriousaboutSamphire I think you've answered my question, they haven't done anything then! As a B person I dont find myself giving blind faith to an organisation on the supposition that someday they'll do something. once (if) they get a track record of contributing to the lgb community in ways other than, then i'll consider. you go your own way though!

I'm not really sure what my 'lazy and misinformed' accusation was because i haven't accused them of anything. it's a prickly topic I guess

As a bi woman I’ve never felt Stonewall represented me so prepared to give LGB Alliance an opportunity. I would like the Trans charities like Stonewall and Mermaids to stop tying them up their resources with malicious complaints to the charity commission

September 2019... They were founded then. Made a charity this year.

And, as others have said, they have been consistent in challenging the misinformation from Stonewall et al and setting up an alternative support. First annual conference is later this year.

How much more do you think they could have done in less that 2 years, mostly in lockdown?

Back to the subject of this thread ... The regulatory capture of police forces is an aspect of all totalitarian regimes.
As Highame puts it:
When the Justice system has been captured we need a public enquiry (yes a separate one) because if it can be captured by Stonewall, it could easily be captured by groups wanting to overturn democracy

They were started by some of the same people that started Stonewall, they know what they are doing

They are not stepping outside their charitable foundation to become a political lobbying organisation.

It is a lazy and misinformed accusation to throw at them, often used by people who are not really posting in good faith - like Pink News, whole tranches if Twitter and Facebook and many monitors here.

And yes know many LGB and T people who support them and think Stonewall is shockingly adrift.

All the LOLs etc

They may have been just declared a charity but they've been around for years to my knowledge...even their twitter is trans this and trans that. I don't think they get my automatic trust to campaign for my rights just because they say they will at some foggy time in the future..

Again I have to ask...what have the LGB alliance actually done for LGB people, other than focus on trans issues?

I realise that this is a bit of an echo chamber but i think we need proper debate to sort out the wheat from the chaff when it comes to what's actually occurring.

Well that's extremely rude, and no. I will not do the leg work for you or dig up conversations and threads that have been held over and over and over again.

Do go and look for them yourself and inform yourself of the experiences of other people that you haven't personally (yet) encountered. But thanks for telling me my experiences as an L person is worthless 'chaff'.

Right now they're having to deal with time wasting malicious complaints and one of the pettiest appeals ever, but I'm eager to see what they get up to when all that's over.

I realise that this is a bit of an echo chamber but i think we need proper debate to sort out the wheat from the chaff when it comes to what's actually occurring. So highly debatable is good for me because at least then its being debated

@Tibtom don't be silly, that sounds like a far right talking point tbh. Obviously the largest lgbt organisation in the UK doesn't deny same sex attraction

We can criticise SW's involvement on trans issues but as many have said they have the longest track record of protecting lesbian and gay rights (although as a bi person they haven't been as great).

Repeating idiotic conspiracy theories doesn't strengthen our position, and makes us look like the loons they want us to be

And no: cancelling would not be out of 'spite'. It would be out of a finally realised fear of being sued for a political affiliation they never should have got into, which damages their public trust, makes impartiality impossible, and has led to the police actually working with advisors who have been stated repeatedly to be misrepresenting the law.

That's hardly 'spite' now, is it? That's kind of the grown ups waking up and going 'oh shit who let this mess happen?'

I'll be honest, I've never seen LGB Alliance do anything for gay rights other that in terms of Transgender stuff... even gc lgb people I know admit that it's not really in their remit or aim lol. Happy to be proven otherwise though!

cancelling stonewall out of spite because of their transgendered views sets lgb rights back.

Highly debatable. Highly. As an L person I am deeply uncomfortable with Stonewall's attitude towards lesbians, cotton ceiling etc and their trying to reframe and redefine homosexuality while enabling politics that actually tries to convince lesbian women to overcome their same sex attraction out of political duty. Deeply uncomfortable. Stonewall in my opinion have significantly damaged lgb rights, I do not want them anywhere near any rights of mine, and I would be uncomfortable with any agency or service claiming this controversial political affiliation.