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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Maya's judgement Thursday 10th June 10.30am

856 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/06/2021 18:13

Wishing her the very best of luck. twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402310977115279362?s=20

I'll be absolutely gutted if the original decision isn't overturned, but at least her case has let a lot of sunlight in.

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19
SlipperyDippery · 10/06/2021 10:31

@littlbrowndog

I got a funny tummy waiting

Stress.

Bet maya feeling so much more

Maya may already know - often judgments are handed down confidentially to the parties in advance. Either way, 🤞🏼
JediGnot · 10/06/2021 10:30

@CardinalLolzy

"DH, if we split up would you be equally open about your next sexual partner being a woman with a penis, or a woman who used to have a penis, or would you prefer to sleep with a woman who was born female and never changed?"

I don't think that's the gotcha people seem to think it is. Men can be bisexual and who he would personally choose as a sexual partner really isn't the point.
I know men's sexual entitlement is a priority for most men but it doesn't need to become the centre of every single argument!

Sorry, is there any evidence that bisexual people are interested in trans people as much as they are interested in men and women? I would have thought it is perfectly possible to be attracted to men and women but not trans people.

I'm not saying it's a 100% gotcha, but I'm pretty sure most men are attracted to women, they are not attracted to men, or trans people of any description. There is a reason for that, and it is biology, thus proving biology's relevance.

CroydianSlip · 10/06/2021 10:30

I've got palpitations

LadyVymes · 10/06/2021 10:29

Fingers crossed

TheWomanInTheIronedMask · 10/06/2021 10:29

It's very strange, like everyone I am waiting and hoping - but hope doesn't seem a strong enough word, I am absolutely yearning for justice for her.

Chrysanthemum5 · 10/06/2021 10:29

Good luck to Maya and us all

crumpet · 10/06/2021 10:28

Yes, I’ve moved into screen refresh time!

TheWomanInTheIronedMask · 10/06/2021 10:28

I too am thinking of Maya.

littlbrowndog · 10/06/2021 10:27

I got a funny tummy waiting

Stress.

Bet maya feeling so much more

purplesequins · 10/06/2021 10:26

@Cailin66

What's F5??
to refresh your computer window.

like in 'the olden days' where you didn't use smart devices.

CardinalLolzy · 10/06/2021 10:26

I had loads I was going to do this last half-hour and instead I've been arguing on the internet as usual !
Obviously I can't start anything now!

Highwind · 10/06/2021 10:24

Everything crossed for Maya (and by extension, all of us) today.

WarOnWoman · 10/06/2021 10:23

Good luck Maya Flowers

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 10/06/2021 10:21

@PronounssheRa

I'm trying not to stress eat

I'm trying to work, but I am here instead

I'm not stress eating, here, F5ing like a seal hoping it brings fish, and reading ahead of my 11:00 meeting.

Nothing is being done well. Blush

jellyfrizz · 10/06/2021 10:21

It's more like age MishyJDI.

"She did define it later as people who believe age is immutable and that younger and older people should have age based services and spaces."

Note that the people having age based services are those that are more vulnerable/have different needs.

Datun · 10/06/2021 10:21

Joanna cherry is razor sharp, isn't she? That was a woman who had no intention of being deflected from the actual point of Maya's case.

In terms of saying one is gender critical, I agree, that not everyone gets it. Largely because women and feminists will view gender as oppressive stereotypes, whereas pro trans organisations will say it's an identity. The fact that there is no following explanation, doesn't seem to count.

To shorthand it to the uninitiated and those not interested in the feminist analysis, I just say it's a belief that sex is based on biology, rather than a feeling in your head. And we segregate on the basis of biology, instead of segregating on the basis of people's individual feelings in their own heads.

It's more aligned to the explanation that trans people actually give, but shows it up for the unworkable issue it is.

CardinalLolzy · 10/06/2021 10:21

If the judgement supports Maya, then all other sorts of beliefs that people may not agree with can be expressed as well without consequence
You do realise this doesn't in any way follow, does it?

It's this specific belief that's in question re being protected, not "all" beliefs. Have you understood anything that's going on? By your logic, if she loses, then " no beliefs can be expressed without consequence".

Cailin66 · 10/06/2021 10:21

What's F5??

GCAcademic · 10/06/2021 10:20

F5 F5 F5 F5 F5

PronounssheRa · 10/06/2021 10:20

I'm trying not to stress eat

I'm trying to work, but I am here instead

FedUpWithBriiiiick · 10/06/2021 10:19

Everything crossed for Maya 🤞🤞🤞

sashh · 10/06/2021 10:19

It's too exclusionary and divisive, versus inclusive.

So?

It is not illegal to exclude certain people from certain places / situations.

CardinalLolzy · 10/06/2021 10:18

@lazylinguist

I don't think that's the gotcha people seem to think it is. Men can be bisexual and who he would personally choose as a sexual partner really isn't the point. I know men's sexual entitlement is a priority for most men but it doesn't need to become the centre of every single argument!

But it's not their sense of sexual entitlement you're trying to get at with that 'gotcha'. It's getting them to realise the cognitive dissonance of the fact that they almost certainly have been happy pootling along thinking TWAW because it's kind to say so and what harm does it do anyway. But that actually having sex with a TW... eek, no... turns out I don't think TWAW for those purposes. Of course men can be bisexual, but that certainly doesn't mean that the majority of TWAW-spouting husbands of GC MNers are.

There's probably lots of women they don't want to have sex with either. It doesn't mean they aren't women. Whether or not someone wants to have sex with someone isn't the point!
EmbarrassingAdmissions · 10/06/2021 10:17

I admire Maya's composure so much. I'm trying not to stress eat while waiting for the announcement and she's managed to put together a nicely gif'd tweet and thank you to her team and supporters:

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1402892858693128194

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 10/06/2021 10:17

If the judgement supports Maya, then all other sorts of beliefs that people may not agree with can be expressed as well without consequence

Yeah

People you don’t agree with are allowed to speak

Scary huh?