Feel like I'm losing my DD

Why are you discussing this if it's a sore point? She probably hasn't changed about most things so why zero in on this one area? I know MN can be obsessed with these issues but mothers and daughters don't have to agree about them. Most of us have dangerous topics and this is clearly yours.

I wouldn't decide she is turning into an angry person yet. I would be angry with a conversation that told me I was gay, for instance, or referred to my trans partner as an intact male. That was just provocative in context. This isn't your MP you're lobbying.

I think it’s a mistake to keep on having these discussions on principle

In your case, your beliefs no longer are in line with your DD beliefs. That is normal. Urging her to “see sense” and come back to her old way of thinking will lead nowhere.

Could it be possible that she is easily influenced?

As, to start with she agreed with you and your beliefs. Now there is a more important person in her life (new partner) and she now aligns her beliefs with theirs.

You are making a mistake by wanting to discuss trans issues with her. As to you it’s political and on principle, to her it now is personal (a person she loves)

I do not believe ‘‘twas nor should people who have gone through make puberty be in women’s sports. Nor should make bodied people have access to women-only areas.

However, if my child would date a trans person, I would change the conversation to make sure they both felt welcome snd supported in my house. I would not change my views. But I’d stop discussing them so much and instead try and listen snd be sympathetic maybe

Calling her girlfriend an 'intact male' is hardly the way to keep a good relationship with her is it? You're clearly not okay with her choice of partner, but that's a you problem.

I hope she's very happy, and respected by the other people in her life.

Sounds really tough. As the mother of a young lesbian, I would be utterly stunned if she arrived home with someone with male genitalia.

Was she settled as a lesbian? Did it fit with what you’d observed of her over the years? Or might she have been kicking over the traces in saying that she was? Has she embraced the idea of an LGBT community? My daughter avoids it because of the pressure to accept that boys are girls, if they say so.

If she hadn’t told you her girlfriend was trans, would you have known? Does she look female? I think that does make a difference.

It may be she’s bi and adjusting to that, or she may have just been experimenting with the idea of lesbianism. Equally, many lesbian and gay people end up in straight relationships. This might be the modern version of that.

Her anger might be related to the relationship. Young transactivism as I see it on Twitter is astonishingly angry. Alternatively, it might be related to cognitive dissonance. Nothing is more anger-making than pressuring yourself to be something you feel you ought to be, while suppressing your conscience that is screaming at you that it’s not really right.

It sounds very difficult, but I think you have to bite your tongue and accept this is where she is at the moment.

Is it you that brings it up, or her?

I think if she’s the one bringing it up, and she is always angry, you have to gently disengage and say you don’t want to discuss it at all when she’s angry and that it can only be a discussion if she’s completely calm.

If it’s you bringing it up, then stop. You won’t change her mind and will drive her into being more defensive. You might also drive her away, which is not at all desirable. If she is angry because the relationship isn’t good, then she might need you when it falls apart.

I actually think that if shes gay, then this is bound to happen. She may well change her views again later on down the line, but really, at the moment, unless she wants to be alienated from most of her own community, she will probably swing between different opinions. Youve obviously brought her up to think critically, so for now, just let her get on with it. Roll your eyes in private. Try and unfollow some of the GC stuff, as it can all get a bit much and might make you feel panicky. Your kids are going to do what theyre going to do, whether you believe in the same stuff or not. She may be under pressure from her partner to denounce all non believers, which might be why shes stressed and angry.
Your priority is keeping your relationship with your daughter and not rocking the boat. Thats more important imo than being actively involved in any movement such as the radfem or GC stuff.

Perhaps take a step back. The word 'cult' and phrases like 'falling down a rabbit hole' are thown about too much here. For many people reading these boards the same can be said about Gender Critical people.

It sounds as if DD was all behind GC views when they were theoretical (as many on here are) but when she's got to know a trans person she realised how exclusitory some of the talking points are.

Your DD obviously see's her gf as a woman and it's not suprising that she is reacting negativly if you're trying to tell her that her partner isn't woman and that she isn't allowed to call her self a lesbian any more because her gf is an 'intact male'.

The whole 'intact male' thing makes no sense to be honest. What does a person' genetalia really have to do with how they experience the world.

My advice would be to get to know your DDs gf (and other trans people) and take a less advisarial approach. This board is terrible for viewing everything as a zero-sum game and approaching compicated topics by over simplification and an under-developed 'us vs them' mentiality. Life is more nuanced than that.

I don't think it's really that unusual to change all your ideas at that age, or at least try new ones. And romance can often be a catalyst for that.

As far as the lesbian business, I'd have my doubts, but I think in general we've become too ready to let young people define their identity through their sexuality at an age when many will still be experiencing changes in that area. Which no big deal if you aren't invested in labels and haven't built all your social relationships around it, but is a lot harder potentially if you have defined yourself and who you are through that lens and worse if a lot of your social connections are through that identity as well.

But you can't do much about that now, other than maybe try and let her know that people do change in that area. But at the moment I'd probably not push it.

As someone mentioned over, you do need to talk about contraception. All other aspects I would try and keep out of but this one definitely needs pointing out.

Lots of good advice already here. Only one thing I would like to add is that you deserve respect and no one, not even a beloved DD, has a right to abuse.

If you can't avoid a clash, then be respectful and firm in your own need for respect. Accepting abuse is one lesson you don't want to model for your daughter.

I think the only thing you can do is talk to her about contraception and then keep out of it. The more you but heads the more you'll push her away, so I'd avoid those topics if I were you.

by cnversations - i meant that one person talks and the other listens. you can ask question but not respond. let her tell you about it and be open to what she says. as i said - your task for both of you can be to understand the other person even if you dont agree. see why the issue of trans right is such a big deal today. think about why it is that it wasnt when we were younger etc etc etc

and as gently as i can - science is a social construct. it is a human endeavour to understand the world around us. it is not god given or objective. it is subject to critique, debate and change.....and i say as someone with a PhD is science

It must be hard to feel that there is a divide between you. Perhaps steering clear of labels for the time being might help to alleviate some of the tension - she can love whoever she wants without being labelled gay or straight (perhaps some of her anger is resulting from her previous view of the definition of /sense of self as “lesbian”, which is now challenged as a result of this relationship).

I know it's perfectly bloody obvious, but remind her about contraception...

Thing is though, if you'd genuinely gone from one point of view to the opposing one, you'd probably have a train of thought you could explain as to why what you thought previously was wrong. She may have this but not be able to or want to articulate it, perhaps she thinks people she know's feelings are more important than strangers' safety (not being facetious, most of us have biases along these lines to some extent).

Give her space and time and she might bring it up to try and rationalise her POV - or she might decide not to ever. Up to her. Obviously be watchful of any abuse or coercion, as you would in any relationship where someone drastically changes, but it's really a 'pick your battles' and show her with actions that she'll be safe coming to you if needed.

No advice except maybe as others have said, communicate about other things and just be there rather than discuss trans issues, etc. Just wanted to send sympathy, as can feel your pain and sense of loss. It will get better.

Perhaps take it as an opportunity to challenge your own beliefs? Are we really being eroded giving trans people human rights? I don't think so.

There is the exemption in the Equality Act for where there is a legitimate purpose. But day to day, there really isnt much impact of trans people just trying their best to exist.

Your daughter is being exposed to new ideas. Which is a positive. Thinking of it as a cult is not helpful thinking IMHO. Perhaps explore it all with her and you may determine it's not as bad as some of the echo chamber on here promotes.

Otherwise being so anti her partner is just going to push her away I would think. Sunday roasts must be fun! (not!)

She is probably angry as the environment for trans people in the UK is just so hostile it now seems and now that she knows someone who is trans she can truly see it. Perhaps you can take the opportunity to explore it yourself, which would be a gift.

Ultimately, our kids I think find their own way. Try to be open, listen and understand, and see if your daughter's girlfriend really is a scary trans person determined to take away CIS women's rights.

Ive spent time with trans and non confirming people and I find them quite different to how often portrayed on here, so I keep a very open mind.

Plus may help you get closer to your daughter. Don't panic she will find her way and truth.

Good luck.

Well to be honest - you really dont have to spend your time discussing all these issues. Just talk about something else. She hasnt joined a cult - you just have different points of view.

I teach in a university and often have to put together lectures on feminism etc. Having now taught for 20odd years, I keep having to keep up to date with the latest debate, etc - and relate it to what the kids are thinking today (and not 20years ago when I was young). They dont call it different waves for nothing - you happen to come from different waves of feminisms/gender studies.

If you do have to discuss these issues - you both need to listen to each other. You are older and therefore clearly more old-fashioned - she is younger, more cutting edge and 'woke' ( I hate that term). What can I say - intellectual thought evolves over time - it's only natural. If you take a more liberal perspective, we hope the world gets better as a result but we never know.

There is no point trying to cover her back. Back to what - feminism from 20-30 years ago? That won't happen. But you can listen, learn from her and in turn, she may also listen to you.

As I always tell my students - you dont have to agree but you do have to understand where different intellectual traditions are coming from. If discussing gender issues is important to both of you - why dont you see it as a series of conversations.....you each get a turn to tell the other person about your views on gender. The other person is allowed to ask questions but not contradict. In both cases - focus not only what the main principles of your beliefs but also on where they've come from and the context. For example, for you - the context of the 1980s/90s was the tail end of militant feminism, spice girls, having it all etc etc etc., mainstreaming of LGB rights, the rise of metro masculinity. Her feminism of the 2010s/2020s - comes on the back of all these developments plus the disregard of transrights within this wider conversation etc etc etc

Try it and it might just work

Time for you to learn the facts of life, as all mothers must. We know nothing at all about sex, which was very recently invented by teenagers. If we ever did it at all , we probably did it all wrong (like parenting) and didn't even enjoy it properly. Ones vagina has probably healed over from disuse.

Your DD is growing up and needs to cut loose to become her own woman. . So just gently untie those apron strings and assume your rightful position somewhere in the background ( not TOO far from a kitchen and a chequebook) while your DD grows her wings. She has to fall off the nest to learn to fly.

Keep a box of tissues handy and practice buttoning your lip and not saying " I tried to warn you" / "I told you so".

In a few years time, you will outgrow this very trying stage of your development and become quite socially acceptable, even admired. . Just hang in there.

Trans issue and U-turn on previously held views aside, are there any other red flags with the relationship?

You're just going to have to treat it as you would any other relationship. 19 year olds might legally be adults but they aren't yet fully mature and are still inclined to rebel against their parents. So you need to avoid giving her something to rebel against.

How old is her partner?