R4 now Tuesday 7.51 am

Will woman's hour step up?

Doubtful

I just heard PM and it was good. t was a pity there was not time to get on to the things with pen ises in women's spaces but the US professor they had on had interesting things to say about why people get so angry. He said most students want a normal traditional debate - lecturer says one point and students disagree back and forth. Instead now a small minority doe snot debate back and just say in effect fingers in ears you have upset me and you are wrong - in a sense punching the lecturer or other person back not debating and other students are scared of being called bigots so dare not respond.

He also said universities are of the left so views of the middle or write are not so relevant - he is right (even in the 1980s when we brought Tory cabinet members to speak at my university we were pelted with eggs not allowed to speak freely) so instead the divide is between a woke left and a liberal left.

It can also be debates as a more practical issue - most women have had trouble with men some of whom are constantly after sex with teenage girls which is why we look after them, had single sex schools etc etc. It is just common sense that if you let people with a pe nis into the girls' changing room of Top Shop it will become a sexual free for all for these male perverts half the time. Even if most trans women with a pe nis don't do that kind of thing just the risk of one is a risk too high.

Yes it's pissed me off that only men have discussed this.

Will woman's hour step up?

I'm listing again to this pm segment though as it needs brain power and it's very clever in that he's pointing out how crap Ben's "debate was."

Ben Cohen trending on Twitter at the moment.

It's not been a great day for him really, has it?

It interests me that they have ONLY had men on this topic today and on two flagship programmes.

I wonder if that is because they have a duty of care to guests and staff? If a woman speaks up she gets rape threats or worse, men don't get the same amount of abuse. Maybe it's not just another "manel"issue - maybe the Beeb's lawyers can see how things are going and that response could be robust?

Jonathan made an excellent point that student debates suddenly became violent verbal rebuttal rather than batting a ball back and forth of discussion.

Evan Davis is a blithering idiot when it comes to the gender stuff Theeyeballsinthesky.

Good discussion on PM. Made it clear that the TWAW brigade are shutting down discussion and intimidating others on campus who do want debates.

The Coddling of the American Mind is a fine example of that susiebluebell.

Evan Davis thinks we all have a gender identity? Speak for yourself Evan!!!

(This in the context of what Jonathan H was discussing.)

Haidt seems like he is a good teacher

Didn't really discuss it tho

Basically, Twitter is bad.

I'm also thinking of that James O'brien LBC radio interview from a couple of years ago, where he treated a female caller with such contempt because she dared to say that she didn't think that transwomen should be in female changing rooms, and then brought on a transwoman caller and basically metaphorically stroked their hair and said 'there there, we won't let those nasty women bully you'.....

Today it feels like we have come an awfully long way from that

I’ve just listened to the recording from this morning… omg Justin was fab! BC was full of cliches and slogans. I loved the Segway into the weather too… it sounded like the weather person rather enjoyed it too 😃

Evan Davis doesn't seem that pleased with what Jonathan Haidt is saying.

Very interesting, and longer, follow-up piece on R4 right now.

What programme was this on?

Social media turned communication into performance.

Yup.

In a way it's good that mn doesn't have a like or rt button

I feel a bit emotional today after all this...

I first saw the screenshot of Stonewall's campaign points about 2 years ago, on here. I literally couldn't believe what it said, I honestly thought it might have been photoshopped, so I went onto the website myself and there it was, I was just horrified! Since then I have seen it shared on here and I have shared it myself a few times on here, there was some talk about it. But I felt like people were so unaware of what was happening - here is the biggest LGBT charity in the UK, possibly the world, who everyone thinks is so great, actually campaigning for the complete abolition of single sex spaces for females, to change the law so that a woman could never be in a position where she knew that the space she was using would be free of males. And no one really seemed to care?

Today, I have seen this screenshot all over Twitter. Everyone who has an interest in this issue is talking about it.

I truly feel like the wheels have fucking finally begun to come off.

2009 - like and RT button.

Also 2014 - I think there's a YouTube algorithm link too.

Evan Davis: "We all have a gender identity."

But, fuck me, they've got Jonathan Haidt on.