Page 19 | R4 now Tuesday 7.51 am

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 08/06/2021 08:32

THERE'S NO TRANSPEOPLE!

No women, either.

And that might be the problem - perhaps the Beeb could organise to have some trans people and some women in a room together?

Thanks for the link, I'll enjoy this. BC is a nasty person who believes TWAW but he isn't choosing one of them to risk her life to deliver him an an infant. Funny that.

AnnaMagnani · 08/06/2021 08:30

Loved it when Ben pointed out there were 3 men discussing a trans issue - just highlighted there were 3 men discussing a women's issue.

Which has been the problem all along, failure to realise this is a women's issue, not just a trans issue.

And when he tried the oppression Olympics by listing all his identities - yep, all of us can play that game too!

Shedbuilder · 08/06/2021 08:30

@Scrawlit

Oh dear. That was a car crash. Cohen was so bad it made the BBC look biased. The "remove exemptions...such as to single-sex spaces" is still on the SW website - it's the first Google search result for 'stonewall single sex spaces'. I don't understand why he said they weren't campaigning for that.

Then we need to be linking to that on Twitter and FB and anywhere else we can think of. I think that we need a campaign of coolly and forensically refuting the lies with evidence and links and quotes so that people coming new to this can find their way. Is there anyone who properly understands the EA 2010 who would be prepared to go back over what BC said this morning and find three big lies and the evidence required to prove they are lies? I'd do it myself, except that I still, despite all my attempts, don't seem to be able to absorb all the nuances of the EA 2010. Every time I confidently make a statement based on my understanding of the law, someone comes along and corrects me!

OnWednesdaysWeWearMink · 08/06/2021 08:30

Surely there’s got to be a women’s hour segment on this coming soon...

OnWednesdaysWeWearMink · 08/06/2021 08:26

@NellieEllie

Gavin Esler was great. “GC is NOT the polite word for transphobic you know that.”. Simon Fanshawe was flippin’ fantastic, clear, fair, measured, articulate, got the practical points across - self Id, sport, women’s spaces. Excellent. Ben. Well - yes, 3 “Cis” people talking about trans. But then Stonewall turned down offer (wonder why) so they turned down chance of a trans speaker. AND NOT ONE WOMAN EITHER, but Ben didn’t see that as an issue.....

Exactly this! Ben didn’t manage to mention women once, in a discussion about women’s rights!

The interviewer did a great job to remain calm and keep trying to get him back on track.

Cwenthryth · 08/06/2021 08:26

Wow thanks, just listened on chasing play catch up on the Sounds app - that was glorious! What a wally BC came across as.

I’ve stopped listening to Today around a year ago due to their refusal to acknowledge any of this. May have to switch back for a while if they’ve suddenly found their guts.

tootyfruitypickle · 08/06/2021 08:26

I'm going to play it back while unloading the dishwasher, it's put such a spring in my step today !!

HeronLanyon · 08/06/2021 08:26

Gonna listen via bbc sounds now. Sounds good.

MNybvcx54 · 08/06/2021 08:26

God that was wonderful!
BC should get more airtime - he will singlehandedly do our job for us

nauticant · 08/06/2021 08:25

Looking at twitter the response seems to be split 3 ways, "debate, yay!", "woke stuff, yawn!", and "I can't believe how transphobic this is, Ben is a hero". For an example of the last of those:

twitter.com/SlauHaus/status/1402160037309693957

C8H10N4O2 · 08/06/2021 08:25

I couldn't get past three men discussing women's safe spaces.

AuntyFungal · 08/06/2021 08:24

Vargas

BBC could choose to have Miranda Yardley, Rose of Dawn et al to come on and give their views.

& their opposite counterparts.

I would genuinely like to hear their voices and arguments in this debate, brought to a wider mainstream audience.

redcarbluecar · 08/06/2021 08:24

Cohen was embarrassing and frustrating. He had the opportunity to explain a position for the benefit of any listener unclear about the debate, and just soapboxed and ranted instead. Bit of an own goal I thought.

Horizons83 · 08/06/2021 08:23

It was amazing, I only wish they had challenged the lie that Stonewall aren’t trying to abolish single sex spaces. But to be fair there wasn’t much chance to challenge anything!

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/06/2021 08:23

@nauticant

It really is well worth listening to. The link is:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000wrjn

but it won't be available till after 9am. Maybe try half 9 or 10. As the title above says, 7.51am so 1 hours 51 minutes in.

It just worked for me by scrolling back to 7.50.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/06/2021 08:22

@Scrawlit

Oh dear. That was a car crash. Cohen was so bad it made the BBC look biased. The "remove exemptions...such as to single-sex spaces" is still on the SW website - it's the first Google search result for 'stonewall single sex spaces'. I don't understand why he said they weren't campaigning for that.

I think I do, although I could be wrong - if I'm right, though, it's a pity BC didn't get time to spell this out, as it would have been a wake up call for the nation. Isn't the TRA case that transwomen are women, so already allowed in women-only spaces?

Stonewall, as I understand it, would like the Equality Act amended to say 'gender', not 'sex', to make that crystal clear.

Justin pointing out that BC had assumed his gender was a glorious moment. You could almost hear BC biting his tongue before saying 'Oh come on, you're not trans!' - almost as if self-ID might be open to abuse by mischief-makers ...

nauticant · 08/06/2021 08:21

It really is well worth listening to. The link is:

www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000wrjn

but it won't be available till after 9am. Maybe try half 9 or 10. As the title above says, 7.51am so 1 hours 51 minutes in.

BettyFilous · 08/06/2021 08:19

@tootyfruitypickle

Stonewall are ridiculous not putting someone up. Says it all about them .

A crisis PR team probably have Nancy tied down like Gulliver with the Liliputians to stop her going on the media and finishing what she started last week.

AnnaMagnani · 08/06/2021 08:18

I think a big turning point has been that when GC people have got on the media, they have all had a lot of media training (or look as if they have) and been v impressive performers - compared to those just going 'No Debate'.

Honorable mention to Nic Williams who was practically doing this alone to start with.

MoonCatcher · 08/06/2021 08:18

Yes Ben, that was a ridiculous interview (any idea who was being ridiculous? ), and no you didn't keep your cool.

nauticant · 08/06/2021 08:18

Justin Webb's been one of the only Today presenters who's openly GC

I'd describe his position as having a strong aversion to identity politics. He spent a long time in the US as a BBC correspondent and came to really love the country but, I think, view identity politics as a corrosive and damaging influence.

littlbrowndog · 08/06/2021 08:17

Omg. Cohen totally unhinged on that.

Justin was like trying to get him to engage but Cohen just kept making statements

Gender critical another word for transphobia 🏌️‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Paralithic · 08/06/2021 08:16

Stonewall’s last outing on the BBC didn’t go so well, so not surprising that they’re hunkering down.

YouSetTheTone · 08/06/2021 08:16

DH texted me from from the car (parked I’m sure! Nursery run!) telling me ‘some guy from Pink News was on the Today programme talking about Stonewall and self ID and he sounded like a psycho’.

Vargas · 08/06/2021 08:16

@AuntyFungal

A delightful contrast between the simple, descriptive explanations from SF and full on confusing, attack rant from BC.

The only thing I agreed with from BC was the need to hear from trans people in interviews.

But Stonewall declined the interview, so it's not like they weren't given an opportunity.