R4 now Tuesday 7.51 am

If there's a transcript marked up in the same way as Mic Wright does it for news stories that would be a mass of colours.

Green: (largely) factual
Orange: opinion / spin
Yellow: from briefing
Pink: tabloidism
Blue: promo/page furniture

Explanation of colour markings etc. taken from here:

twitter.com/brokenbottleboy/status/1401922020489797635

I didn't mind there being three men talking about women's rights this time - partly because I was just so happy to hear BC making a massive fool of himself, and partly (sadly, obvs) because people (esp men) are far more likely to listen to men discussing this than to women.

Much harder to dismiss as 'wimmin's issues'

advice 'on' equality law

This has made my day.

www.stonewall.org.uk/cy/node/9461

Here is the link re: Stonewall on single sex exemptions.

It's from 2015, but if they had changed their minds you would have thought they would have taken the article down.

The fact that their advice on single sex exemptions deliberately minimises or fails to acknowledge any conflict of rights demonstrates why they should be treated as a lobbyists, not a reputable organisation that can give advice equality law.

Cohen was very ranty wasn't he. I've heard Justin Webb on the subject before and he's very good.......

BBC could choose to have Miranda Yardley, Rose of Dawn et al to come on and give their views. & their opposite counterparts.

Both of those would be excellent choices - I know the latter in particular is not aligned with a GC viewpoint.

Of course, there's always Stephen Whittle. It's rather sad that I can't think of another trans man with a public profile in the UK.

However, as stated above, this was a section about women's rights although the whole thing ended up being about the empty chair (Stonewall).

Just listened- it was epic and glorious! SF is bloody amazing, everything we’ve been saying for years, nicely summed up.
I’m going to listen again today and count how many times BC lied.

Just went onto Stonewall site to see what they say (in detail) and the detail of what they stand for. Remarkably difficult to see any detail at all.

I don't have a massive problem with not having a woman as part of this interview.

It's the absolute hypocrisy of the outrage of how wrong it is to discuss trans issues without a trans speaker (invited but wouldn't come) while having no problem discussing women's issues without a woman speaker (not invited.)

Repeatedly, for years, the BBC have discussed the biggest women's rights issues since the Suffragettes on air by putting a group of male people to discuss amongst themselves what male people should permit and direct female people to do, have and feel.

It's sexism on crack, and absolutely illustrative of what really lies at the heart of all this: an established cultural belief of service humans. Woke my arse.

It’s set to be a bright sunshiney day! I enjoyed that.

Cohen notably would not 'answer the question' about women having a right to express concerns. Indeed, he wouldn't mention the word 'woman'. Seemed more concerned to talk about himself.

I mentioned this thread to Dh who said go onto BBC sounds and just rewind to 7.50 which I did. We both just sat here and listened. BC did not come across well at all. Loved Simon and Justin.

Sadly all too short as usual. I stopped listening to WH a while ago, I cannot relate to its stance.

I did some air punches to that segment!

Justin Walsh gently hinting at the possibility that B Cohen had assumed he was cis ... priceless!

I don't have a massive problem with not having a woman as part of this interview. GC women have been invited onto similiar BBC-aired segments quite a bit recently, but I think having a one-time founder of Stonewall and a gay man putting the GC side of things will have helped to break through to the sort of listener who thinks it's 'just women being hysterical' .

Penis News/BC really didn't come out of this well, did they?

I imagine James Dreyfus could put Kathy Burke straight on a few points. I hope they're still good mates. Used to love Gimme Gimme Gimme.

Just come on here to see what this was about. DH emerged from under his headphones to tell me about a bloke who sighed a lot and called everything transphobic. Said his stomach was in knots just listening to the gaslighting. Yeah mate, now you know how I feel all the bloody time, and years of hearing this shit too.

Not the Kathy Burke??

I was in the car listening, usually I would be at work and would have missed it. It was wonderful! I did a lot of clapping and laughing and then cried for a moment or two. Gave the bloke driving next to me something to look at!!
I've already emailed Justin to thank him and let it know what it means to me.

I think a big turning point has been that when GC people have got on the media, they have all had a lot of media training (or look as if they have)

What a horrible thing to say :) On the contrary, they mostly seem quite normal...

It's the other side who would need the media training to cover up how incoherent they are. The politicians supporting it usually have that training and manage to waffle/fudge, but people like Cohen and Butterworth just let the nonsense flow.

Shame for them the Today programme really isn't Twitter. No doubt managed to raise a few more bushy eyebrows across the land.

That was wonderful to listen to. Justin Webb was awesome. The ranty guy was just …. Ranty.

When Justin said “you don’t know anything about me” it was wonderful. Just amazing.

Brilliant!

Blimey !
Simon F was great.
Ben C was shockingly bad. The opposite of calm rational argument haven’t heard such a bad interviewee for some time (and I’d include all trump interviews in that ffs).

Can someone tell Kathy Burke on twitter that they were discussing women's rights, not trans rights???

Benjamin Cohen lied about Stonewall not campaigning to remove the Equality Act exceptions

Yes - it was in the Vision for Change policy document, clear as day.

www.stonewall.org.uk/system/files/a_vision_for_change.pdf

Ah, great minds, Anna!