R4 now Tuesday 7.51 am

I did some air punches to that segment!

Me too, GlomOfNit. Me too All the way down the lane where I was walking and listening in to this excellent segment.

Thank you for flagging this.

I always try to see these media things from the perspective of someone who has had next to no involvement in any of this and is coming to it completely cold while listening in the car or whatever.

I think the most notable thing about this segment was that Simon Fanshawe was calmly talking about the need for an open discussion about rights and any problems arising from a clash, but Benjamin Cohen was SO QUICK to make it personal and behave as though he was mortally offended and JW was committing several human rights abuses merely by hosting the interview.

I think people in general are heartily sick of this "how very dare you" minefield and have lost patience with university graduates who claim victimhood, while denouncing others from their high profile media platform in their white, educated, middle class voices. It's the phenomenon identified by Lucy Mcdonagh of the Deptford Project way back in 2015 - That’s what ‘self-identify’ means: anyone can say they are anyone… So, rich, privileged people can claim to be marginalized.

It seemed to me that BC absolutely encapsulated the 'you can't say that' culture - or you have to prove your credentials before you're allowed to voice an opinion. People are losing patience with that. More and more people want, and are willing, to discuss the Emperor's sartorial choices and the derailing and merailing just doesn't work anymore.

Would it be worth politely emailing r4 about the lie about single-sex spaces?

I wish someone would have pulled up on being able to self-id as any gender you like and others having to respect that yet calling yourself GC and not transphobic gets redefined for you, out loud, by people who don't believe you are what you say you are.

Good point from nauticant -
"nauticant Tue 08-Jun-21 09:06:45

Justin Walsh gently hinting at the possibility that B Cohen had assumed he was cis ... priceless!

Webb was making the point that Cohen will assume someone is cis rather than trans one minute and the next will say assuming someone's "gender identity" is akin to violence. In other words, Webb was pointing out that Cohen is a hypocrite, and was doing this to get under his skin. It worked but neat tricks like that could see Webb removed from this topic."

At last people seem to be starting to understand the real issues here although no women on it (never mind a trans person). Just men talking for us as ever.

I was in the car with my 12 year old DS listening to this ........he heard swear words that he had never heard uttered by his dear Ma before .

Well done Pink News guy (didn't catch your name, sorry old chap)........you really did do us all a favour by being so inept in setting out your stall.

Lovely job mate! Keep it up!

And too many men happy to seize the chance of supposed cover for their misogyny.

Benjamin Cohen did actually make a stand-up job of representing Stonewall's POV when I come to think about it…

It worked but neat tricks like that could see Webb removed from this topic.

I hope not, and I don’t think so now, actually. (It would have done even a year ago).

I know some politicians go on about “gotcha” type questions on the Today programme, but letting BC demonstrate his hypocrisy wasn’t a neat trick or a gotcha, it was just allowing the interviewee to reveal the reality of his point of view.

What a total car crash. Justin clearly so totally sick of his shit 😄 Fanshawe was great. It was surprising, and moving, to hear a man talk with conviction about women's right to single sex spaces

If you're interested, have a search for Justin Webb and on the MN search page tick the topic Feminism Chat. He's been engaged on this issue since at least 2018.

Cohen doesn't see women, I think he thinks they are irrelevant to his life (except when he wants one to grow and birth a baby for him, or needs an egg to make one) - he didn't know that Liz Truss is the Minister for Women and Equalities, he thought her title was just 'Equalities'.

If a man is going to be talking about women he really needs to know that women exist.

Justin Walsh gently hinting at the possibility that B Cohen had assumed he was cis ... priceless!

Webb was making the point that Cohen will assume someone is cis rather than trans one minute and the next will say assuming someone's "gender identity" is akin to violence. In other words, Webb was pointing out that Cohen is a hypocrite, and was doing this to get under his skin. It worked but neat tricks like that could see Webb removed from this topic.

one of whom reframed it as a man's issue and was incapable of even spitting out the word 'woman'.

That one reframed it as his personal issues. His diatribe was half about him and his beliefs. So little of it was actually about stonewall and yes, he even got the published removal of single sex exemptions wrong (and that is so easily verifiable).

So penis news proves their credentials really.

That was great

Interviewer to Ben: "Hang on, you know nothing about me, now can you answer the question?"

"Stonewall could've come on but didn't" 😂

Anyone listening to that would have heard calm rational Simon then Benjamin, the difference was stark, Benjamin came across really badly. I liked the end when it was made clear stonewall refused to be part of the discussion.

Shame the BBC didn't pull him up on the lies about single sex spaces. I also want interviews to start talking about the sex by deception issue.

I saw the date and assumed there would be something more recent.
There it is in black and white. (Unless we do an embarrassing colour code - fascinating).

Justin Walsh gently hinting at the possibility that B Cohen had assumed he was cis ... priceless!

And why should it be assumed that he is cis? It's true that Justin Webb may look like a white male member of the establishment, but I can think of at least one white male member of the establishment who presents as a white male member of the establishment in every way except pronouns.

It was three men talking about a women's issue - one of whom reframed it as a man's issue and was incapable of even spitting out the word 'woman'.

A factor there is that it is safer in this 'debate' for men to speak for women: Justin Webb has doubtless moved into the TRA crosshairs, but social media will feature non-misogynistic name-calling and demands that he lose his job: there won't be vile threats to rape him with 'lady dicks'.

Thanks merrymouse. I think my eyes weren’t really wanting to read stuff to carefully as I was searching as I’m so angry about eg the Alison Bailey debacle. Didn’t even like to go to their site tbh.