R4 now Tuesday 7.51 am

Funny how women are just used to being called ‘hysterical fishwives’.

I'm confused. Who's called BC 'shrill' etc? The original interview didn't contain any name-calling like that apart from BC calling the belief in two sexes 'transphobic'.

Well yes. The amount of threats of sexual violence addressed towards women for saying they want single sex spaces kind of proves the point.

But safety is not the only reason female people want, need and should be entitled to spaces with only other female people. Wanting privacy from male people is fine all by itself. Privacy, dignity, emotional comfort - all things valued as important and pressing for male people who do not want to be with other male people but not tolerated at all for female people who do not want to be with male people.

And some women will be excluded from women's single sex spaces if any male enters. Regardless of how safe or lovely that male is. This is the insurmountable bit. The first job of a female single sex space is to meet the needs inclusively of all females. A mixed sex space is by definition going to be exclusive of some females.

However hard it may be to accept, some female people need sex based definitions and sex based boundaries that male people need to respect. Equality of respect for both sexes by both sexes is most of the problem here.

This. We deserve our feelings to be respected as much as trans people do. I'm sick of being told they don't count.

Plus I don't think Justin came across as angry - more exasperated.

Ben was like a small child having a hissy fit, and did his cause no good.

Because he was neither shrill nor hysterical Dee.

I wouldn't have called Ben those things, personally, but he did get very ranty, wouldn't answer questions, tried to make propaganda statements, lied, and started a "discrimination top trumps" which was highly offensive.

also Justin Webb was not exactly acting as impartial to both men...wonder is he an ally?

he got very angry too but i dont see him being called shrill or hysterical...maybe them who are saying it should have a word with themselves

His voice was the worst takeaway from this?

I've no idea how much the MS affects his voice quality. I understand how he might feel sensitive about it. (Other explanations are available.)

His voice was the worst takeaway from this? That’s what he thinks? Not that he didn’t do a good job and got facts wrong - and basically called everyone nasty-stinky-Poo-bums?

Just a distraction. Would it have been better to have told what seem to be lies in a calm, even voice? His claim for the gold in the disadvantage Olympics was taking up time instead of answering the questions he couldn't handle.

Cry me a river. Many have health problems and don't think that automatically gives us the right to try to remove rights from other people. He (I'm assuming) isn't too laden down with respect or integrity.

I hope he'd exhibit such angst if he ever thought about the ethics of hiring a woman to have a baby. Or guilt worrying about any health consequences she may suffer as a result.

Just 'Oh my god, the haters are saying I have a shrill voice. The haters, how abusive. My voice isn't shrill'. Of course, I'm sure the Pen is News is an example of respect towards women and GLB people who are unashamedly same sex attracted. But don't say someone has a shrill voice, or you're the worst hater.

Stop male violence, and then we can talk.

ForeverFaithless that comment is priceless. Perfect example of the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Wanting privacy from male people is fine all by itself. Privacy, dignity, emotional comfort

Just the freedom to be amongst only women, and free from all the gender stereotype & socialised gender roles bullshit.

Most women really really like this. We need it - living with the enemy-oppressor is exhausting & sometimes we need to be ourselves.

Stop male violence, and then we can talk.

I use this line in “discussions” about Trans rights and it’s very effective. For those who come back with “BNAM”, I say then why do we have single sex spaces now?

Wow, Ben does NOT appreciate being called shrill. He is SO salty about it. Women are just so used to being called hysterical - I've never seen a woman launch into this massive justification about why, in fact, she didn't sound 'stuttery'. He's really pressed about it.

Stop male violence, and then we can talk. Not threaten male violence, because you're not getting your way

Well yes. The amount of threats of sexual violence addressed towards women for saying they want single sex spaces kind of proves the point.

But safety is not the only reason female people want, need and should be entitled to spaces with only other female people. Wanting privacy from male people is fine all by itself. Privacy, dignity, emotional comfort - all things valued as important and pressing for male people who do not want to be with other male people but not tolerated at all for female people who do not want to be with male people.

And some women will be excluded from women's single sex spaces if any male enters. Regardless of how safe or lovely that male is. This is the insurmountable bit. The first job of a female single sex space is to meet the needs inclusively of all females. A mixed sex space is by definition going to be exclusive of some females.

However hard it may be to accept, some female people need sex based definitions and sex based boundaries that male people need to respect. Equality of respect for both sexes by both sexes is most of the problem here.

I think this is my favourite interaction so far

It never ceases to amaze me, the bloody cheek of all this. Stop male violence, and then we can talk. Not threaten male violence, because you're not getting your way (not directed to Cohen)

Julie Bindel says this clearly & beautifully in her conversation with Benjamin Boyce. His (faux?) naivety can be irritating, but in this case it allows Ms Bindel to be crystal clear & lay things out at the fundamental level.

(You can listen as a podcast as well: "The Boyce of Reason")

[quote WinterTrees]I enjoyed this whole twitter thread. 'Ben Cohen's performance on the Today programme only with a gif"

twitter.com/AMMcCormack2/status/1402162109757247493[/quote]
Oh my goodness, that has made me laugh so much I’ve given myself a bit of a headache! The pink pedal car gif just sent me into wheezing hysterics.

Like BC I have MS. Unlike him, I don’t go around waving it like a card to give me license to be a big plonker. Quite uncomfortable with the way he seems to think disability = no one can argue with him. It feels infantilising, I can’t quite articulate it.

I’m going back to watch those gifs again, marvellous 😂

Male privilege, time and time again. They don't or won't understand when they are so steeped in their own privilege

I wonder if he will take her up on her offer?

(warning - very offensive language in the screenshot)

twitter.com/melissawright75/status/1402605771502858240

I think we can see the implications of NK saying GC beliefs are akin to anti semitism....?