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Original poster

The horrific reality of child MtF transition

88 replies

StellaAndCrow · 07/06/2021 16:57

I've just watched this video of Buck Angel interviewing Scarlett, a 19 yr old transwoman. She was given puberty blockers at 13 then cross-sex hormones.

I’m referring to Scarlett as “she” as Buck does in the title - I’m not sure what she prefers, but she does point out that her peers avoid talking to her for fear of offending her.

Scarlett tells her story of realising as a boy that she liked guys, hating her body at puberty, and thinking that she had to be “pretty” to attract guys. She went to a therapist to try to figure things out - was asked how she felt about long hair and dresses “I didn’t understand what gender identity was. I just knew I had effeminate mannerisms and liked guys". “They wanted to make it all about clothes”

I found the video absolutely gutting. She comes across as a lovely and thoughtful person, in such a difficult situation. She talks about how, when starting blockers:

  • she was told she could go back at any time
  • she was told that she ould be sterile, but didn’t know she would be castrated, lose her sexual function and suffer from atrophy
  • she wasn’t told about the social and relationship difficulties:
“it’s the exact awkward existence I was trying to avoid as a feminine gay guy”

She also mentions “because my puberty was paused, the people who do want to be with me are not the most savoury of people”

OP posts:
MrsBunHat · 07/06/2021 22:10

You cannot, even with cross sex hormones trigger any sort of puberty different to the biological sex of the child.

There's one aspect of this I don't understand which is when girls go through FtM transition, they get a deeper, often very male-sounding voice, and can have facial hair etc. Is this only possible if they've already had a female puberty? What happens if they have been on blockers and not had puberty - would they still have those effects?

It seems to me that the deeper voice is one of the difficult things for female detransitioners to cope with - can that be reversed?

talkingdeadscot · 07/06/2021 22:09

@DeRigueurMortis

Obviously this is normal in puberty but just to decide that at such a vulnerable, unformed and malleable age, a child should go through a medicalised version of a different puberty which will then mean they will then be on that pathway and needing lifelong treatment.

Sorry to be pedantic but I think it very important to dispel the myth of a "different" puberty.

These children "progress" from blockers to cross sex hormones.

You cannot, even with cross sex hormones trigger any sort of puberty different to the biological sex of the child.

Children who transition having been medicated with blockers never experience puberty ever and it's absolutely unclear the extent of what the long term ramifications of this are - though given the importance of puberty (both physically and mentally) the narrative that this is without consequence is frightening.

Is that really true? Is this the same puberty blockers that are used for precocious puberty or is that something different? My OH keeps telling me that because blockers are just pausing puberty like they do for precocious puberty then there's no problem with them.

I don't see how that's possible given a) they're (apparently) the same medication that's used in stage 4 cancer and b) hormones are very powerful things and the medical community has no real idea how they work.

Is that wrong? Thanks

Aspiringmatriarch · 07/06/2021 21:52

Puberty in the sense of developing typical secondary sexual characteristics, I mean.

Aspiringmatriarch · 07/06/2021 21:51

I didn't realise that. I mean, I know puberty blockers have an ongoing effect but I thought the subsequent hormones did trigger 'puberty', albeit not a natural one for that individual.

DeRigueurMortis · 07/06/2021 21:49

Obviously this is normal in puberty but just to decide that at such a vulnerable, unformed and malleable age, a child should go through a medicalised version of a different puberty which will then mean they will then be on that pathway and needing lifelong treatment.

Sorry to be pedantic but I think it very important to dispel the myth of a "different" puberty.

These children "progress" from blockers to cross sex hormones.

You cannot, even with cross sex hormones trigger any sort of puberty different to the biological sex of the child.

Children who transition having been medicated with blockers never experience puberty ever and it's absolutely unclear the extent of what the long term ramifications of this are - though given the importance of puberty (both physically and mentally) the narrative that this is without consequence is frightening.

MondayYogurt · 07/06/2021 21:48

Thank goodness someone is shining a light on these experiences.
More detrans stories need to be told (I realise Scarlett isn't in that category). Their voices are being crushed by the TRA lobby. They are just as valid, just as valuable to the world as trans people.

MingeofDeath · 07/06/2021 21:42

Poor Scarlett, what a tragedy.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 07/06/2021 21:33

It is a tragedy

Aspiringmatriarch · 07/06/2021 21:25

I have to say I don't think this is typical of care in the UK though. I bloody hope not anyway!

Aspiringmatriarch · 07/06/2021 21:24

It's so sad. I absolutely believe that some people will be happier transitioning, but to essentially stunt a child's growth mentally and physically and then give cross-sex hormones is just beyond unethical. And how could you ever say, after the fact, how you might have developed? Hormones are powerful, they are going to have a massive impact on the person taking them. Obviously this is normal in puberty but just to decide that at such a vulnerable, unformed and malleable age, a child should go through a medicalised version of a different puberty which will then mean they will then be on that pathway and needing lifelong treatment. It's honestly hard to understand how this is allowed to happen, it's a tragedy really.

DeRigueurMortis · 07/06/2021 21:18

She and her parents absolutely got absolutely railroaded that's for sure.

I wonder how much these facilities earn over the lifetime of a person whose transitioned?

Think of all the drugs, initial GR surgery's and likely more surgery for "revisions" and complications, "top up" procedures for facial feminism etc

I'll bet it's approaching 7 figures over a lifetime.

Original poster
StellaAndCrow · 07/06/2021 21:11

And her poor mother. Scarlet had a history of anxiety and suicidal thoughts When Scarlett went to therapy at the age of 13, they advised that the reason for those thoughts was her family not recognising who she really was (ie. a trans girl).
And they were told that they’d already waited too long my letting some of puberty happen, so they didn’t have much tine to start treatment. and so save their child from suicide.

I'm sorry for all the quotes - I think it's important for these stories to be heard - I should have just transcribed the whole thing at the start :)

OP posts:
DeRigueurMortis · 07/06/2021 21:10

One of the (many) things that greatly troubled me was Scarlet's description how the facility treating her stopped checking in with her when she declined to further the transition through (I'd imagine very expensive) surgery.

They just abandoned her in a state of arrested development.

It's utterly heartbreaking.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 07/06/2021 21:10

Apologies

I think some young people are TOLD that its the answer to their problems

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 07/06/2021 21:08

Ds1said that he was glad he wasnt a few years younger as he would probably be caught up in this

And i do believe that some people are gender dysphoric and that transitioning may help them, but i also think a lot of young people see transitioning as the answer to their problems when its not

Its the ‘encouraging’ of such young people i have problems with

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 07/06/2021 21:07

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StellaAndCrow · 07/06/2021 21:01

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Original poster
StellaAndCrow · 07/06/2021 20:57

I got the impression that she didn't know any gay peers, so when she found she liked guys, she compared herself to the girls around her, seeing herself as not as attractive as them (to boys) and so needing to change herself.
(Incidentally Scarlett is actually really beautiful, but that's by the by. And I get the impression that might be causing some issues, with her mention of unsavoury people)

OP posts:
BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 07/06/2021 20:57

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Original poster
StellaAndCrow · 07/06/2021 20:54

And the medics weren't even good at the hormone treatment bits.
They gave no testosterone at all, leading to significant loss of muscle mass, then said this must be due to something else. They did not look into related kidney problems, saying that wasn't their area.

I've heard/read a lot of child FtM accounts, but fewer MtF. People need to know what is being done to children.

And I was interested that she said she was encouraged to isolate herself, not to put herself out in society, because "society is dangerous for trans people". The process made her focus more on her body and parts she wasn't happy with, as she didn't think she was attractive enough.

She mentions older transexuals who transitioned later in life envying her early transition, and pushing for it to go ahead.

Really, I was just gutted for her, and so angry that this is allowed to happen. And presumably is happening to many more children who may not be able to articulate the issues so clearly.

OP posts:
Original poster
StellaAndCrow · 07/06/2021 20:48

@nauticant

Gosh OP, was this the thread you said elsewhere had been taken down by MNHQ? If so, I'm glad to see it's been reinstated.
Yes, they said they took it down to check the quotes I'd used from the video. I thought it might be because I'd used the word horrific, but that was how I felt. It was so sad to hear Scarlett say that she'd ended up in the exact awkward situation she'd been trying to avoid as a feminine gay boy.

I think that she meant she'd had difficulty "fitting it" as an effeminate gay boy from a very religious background, and had a hard time at school. She sought therapy to help come to terms with it, given the "trans" explanation, and no one mentioned the potential social and relationship difficulties post-transition, and she'd ended up having even more difficulty "fitting in".
And on top of that, she has medical problems that everyone says is someone else's problem.

OP posts:
Summersnake · 07/06/2021 20:34

I don’t think he should be saying ,I’m bringing you a real life kid here who’s life is ruined,fucking ruined ,...
He’s making her feel worse ,than she already does .

Summersnake · 07/06/2021 20:23

Well ,
He still needs to stop interrupting her ..he talks over her constantly,it’s irritating

IntoAir · 07/06/2021 20:22

Important video - makes me admire and respect Buck Angel even more.

Summersnake · 07/06/2021 20:22

What