The horrific reality of child MtF transition

Will watch

we used Scarlett's own description of what had been done to her, medically/surgically. I guess someone must have reported it

It's funny how open-minded Mumsnet is about some C words

I didn't understand it at first, but now I really appreciate its pithy wisdom.

@NanaNorasNaughtyKnickers I presume it was trans activists who pushed for this but it's unclear. It certainly seems very convenient for the medical industry when the lawsuits increase, as one feels they inevitably will. The WHO talk of removing the "stigma" of mental illness which is a lovely thing to hear for those of us trying to counter the prejudice that mental health issues are something to be ashamed of, and want people to feel more confident to 'come out' and talk about them openly!

I keep thinking about this video, the pain and grief on Scarlet's face. It's so unfair what they've done.

[quote IvyTwines2]@NanaNorasNaughtyKnickers 'When documents are signed they are the patient giving consent for the treatment. If it turns out that the consent was flawed because it was not informed then no consent was given, and any protection the surgeons and other medics had falls away.'

Activists have successfully lobbied for the W.H.O. to declassify 'Gender Dysphoria' as a mental health disorder in the USA (and elsewhere I presume). If it had still been classed as a mental illness, would surgeons, puberty blocker suppliers and so on have had to act with more caution regarding consent, and be more liable legally?[/quote]
I don't want to pretend I'm any sort of expert in this. You mean transgender-rights activists? I would guess that you're right, in that the duty owed to patients with a mental illness, and who are therefore more vulnerable, and possibly with greater problems of watertight mental capacity, must be higher. I would think that any lawyers/insurers acting on behalf of the doctors would want to see a more rigorous process for making sure that proper informed consent had been obtained so that any liability could be disclaimed.

I'm not having an especially wonderful week, so am probably a bit more, er emotionally labile than usual, but I can hardly bear to hear about these poor people. The lies they're being told, the omission of critical information, the lack of actual knowledge on the medical side of what is being done.... How can the people who push this live with themselves?

@NanaNorasNaughtyKnickers 'When documents are signed they are the patient giving consent for the treatment. If it turns out that the consent was flawed because it was not informed then no consent was given, and any protection the surgeons and other medics had falls away.'

Activists have successfully lobbied for the W.H.O. to declassify 'Gender Dysphoria' as a mental health disorder in the USA (and elsewhere I presume). If it had still been classed as a mental illness, would surgeons, puberty blocker suppliers and so on have had to act with more caution regarding consent, and be more liable legally?

When documents are signed they are the patient giving consent for the treatment. If it turns out that the consent was flawed because it was not informed then no consent was given, and any protection the surgeons and other medics had falls away.

The patient can't sign away the need for consent to be informed, certainly not in British law, and I'd need surprised if they can in US law, otherwise all medical interventions would start with the patient being asked to sign a blanket disclaimer, and medical litigation would never be a thing.

Haven't I read that they get them all to sign disclaimers so the surgeons can't be sued?

Yes but the private doctors also stand to be sued - they must know that. Of course they benefit from lots of people having private surgery but to be sued for not disclosing side effects could end their career.

After all, there are lots of crowdfunders for these surgeries, which if they were NHS surely shouldn't be necessary?

Private medicine, and follow the money, perhaps?

But why would medical practitioners not tell young people the truth about the side effects and downsides of these treatments and surgeries? It's really strange.

I understand that big pharma benefit from a lot of people transitioning and being medicated all their lives. But doctors themselves surely stand to be disastrously sued if they misinform people who end up changing their mind or just being harmed by the realities of the situation. Especially in the US you would have thought.

It's sometimes said that professionals just go along with it so as not to be labelled transphobic, but explaining the downsides of surgery is just a basic of any doctor's job isn't it? I had a consultation the other day about very minor surgery and got the full rundown of risks and side effects, even very rare ones.

I worked as a therapist back in the day - sorry but if you won’t hear then you need to seriously consider (what the kids would say these days) ‘your truth’ and how it sits in relation to reality and what’s actually best for you.

I'm not so sure tbh.

I think it's true in some cases, but I think others have "learned" predominantly through SM that the best way to "win" any discussion is to centre how "you" feel and what's "triggering" to you.

It's an "easy" way to shut down discussion because most people don't want to go out of their way to upset anyone.

The problem is the truth is often uncomfortable and upsetting - refusing to acknowledge that doesn't make something untrue.

I'd also reference a comment (sorry can't remember the source - maybe an Interview or Tweet) from (transsexual) Miranda Yardley when she pointedly asserted that a lack of mental fortitude and understanding of the limits and downsides of transition should be a red flag for anyone being allowed to transition at all.

Of people can’t bear to hear anything negative in their lives it certainly points to a dangerously fragile nature.

I think he is still on testosterone but hasn’t yet had a surgical transition - not sure about the top surgery. Last I heard he was also telling the older women they were not allowed to complain about their male partners because hearing bad things about men made him regret having chosen to be a man 😟

Young kids and even older teenagers haven’t got much sense of life in general, even if they believe they have. Anyone who allows/encourages them to take irreversible medical and surgical steps is criminally irresponsible. ☹️

That really is wicked, isn't it. Poor kid. I hope he was lucky and hasn't had serious side-effects.

A while ago I was on a hobby discord group which was almost entirely women except for one very young (18 y o) trans man. He was from the US, and got very angry over some older (40+) U.K. members of the group discussing endometriosis and perimenopause, because it was “triggering” - but the explicit reason being discussion of how difficult it was to get a hysterectomy for severe endometriosis and the pros and cons. Not because this was too gynocentric, but because older women were discussing the downsides of hysterectomy - organ prolapse, hormone issues etc.

It turned out that the young transman had literally never been told there were any downsides to complete hysterectomy and ovarian removal. It came as a great shock to him that this could cause pelvic organ prolapse, osteoporosis, all the other complications. The whole medical transition pathway had been presented to this (American) teenager - already on high doses of testosterone - as entirely risk free. His reaction to hearing that there might be physical downsides was a kind of terrified rage.

He had also been open about (unrelated) serious medical issues and family problems dating back to childhood, especially a complicated relationship with his mother, which it was not hard to see had clearly been part of the desire to transition. But I found it especially heartbreaking that he had clearly not been told the truth about what is a very serious medical procedure, which had been presented as easy and without future consequences. 😢

Yes

I assume it was a description of the procedure or the outcomes? I have been deleted for that before (I was actually repeating what Scott Newgent had said - and they know more about this than all of us put together).