Libby Purves in the Times today

Well until we are all raised by wolves, I think most of us know what a mothers and fathers are, and the title also goes to adoptive parents etc. Well said Libby Purves.

@CardinalLolzy - You do realise that mother is a verb as well as a noun, right? Mother, the noun, defined as "a female person who mothers" is refering to the verb. It's not in any way circular.

Regarding fathers, I posted this point on the “if you never read the feminist board...”

Do transwomen and non-binary penis people prefer to be known as inseminating parents? Will all fathers be referred to in this way by schools, the NHS and other organisations for the sake of the feelings of transwomen and non-binary sperm producers?

Not much talk about rebranding "father" is there. Funny that

I know, it’s quite the mystery isn’t it. It’s not as if male privilege pushes its way into the Trans debate all all. No, that would never ever happen.

Not much talk about rebranding "father" is there. Funny that.

I wasn't trying to argue with doing away with mother, just trying to provide a non-circular definition of mother that covered adoptive parents!

I hear what you’re saying but I’d say the mother in “person who mothers” is a verb, )rather than a noun), meaning “take care of” sort of thing

Agreed. For that reason it's not a circular definition. In the same way, a trainer is a person who trains. A singer is a person who sings. And so on.

Having said that, if you're going to use "mother" the verb in a definition of "mother" the noun, you do also have to have a definition of "mother" the verb for it to make any kind of sense.

TeenMinusTests

thanks for the clarification

Good for Libby, great article

Not really, the word mother simply means "person who mothers".

The amount of noise this board (rightly) makes about circular definitions!! I'm giving up now!

I hear what you’re saying but I’d say the mother in “person who mothers” is a verb, )rather than a noun), meaning “take care of” sort of thing

Love Libby Purves. Her books were a sane and sensible friend during the early years of motherhood.

Oh, and too damn right I'm a mother.
I wouldn't have gone through what I have for the last 6 years if I wasn't.

Or even just female parent!

Doesn’t mother in the second instance mean female primary caregiver? That would cover adoptive mothers I think?

My DDs have short birth certificates just confirming their names and where they were born.
But they also have longer Adoption register certificates naming us as their parents. But the word Adoption at the top makes it very clear we aren't their birth parents.

Adoption gives us all the legal rights and responsibilities, but there is no 'legal fiction' involved.

No one is saying adoptive parents aren't real parents

Not sure what your argument is, sorry... I'm saying, by them claiming that "mother" and "birthing parent" are interchangeable, they are saying adoptive female parents can't be defined as "mother".
No concept of "real" or otherwise, just whether mother means and only means birthing parent. As per the AdoptionUK tweet above.

Not really, the word mother simply means "person who mothers".

The amount of noise this board (rightly) makes about circular definitions!! I'm giving up now!

A mother is a female parent

There is a legal fiction that adoptive mothers are placed on birth certificates but no adoptive mothers believe they really gave birth.

Anyway....

SW have a long way to go if they're going to try convincing everyone that the word mother is an irrelevance, to be erased, or is inherently offensive to T people, or is only necessary in the most vague indeterminate context or in porn.

Seeing this outflow of comment and the tide of withdrawals from the champions scheme really brings home how magnificent JKR and JT have been. To have stuck their heads above the parapet (in JT’s case, repeatedly) when so many were avoiding even asking questions, took real guts.

Please let the next turnaround be from the Good Law Project.

On one hand, linguistically, either the word mother purely means "person who has given birth", or it also has additional connotations (being maternal, feminine or something, I don't really know)
Not really, the word mother simply means "person who mothers".

The reason why stonewall want to erase the word "mother" from anything to do with parenting is exactly the same reason they want to remove the word "woman" from anything to do with female specific healthcare. To SW, these words can only be acceptable when used in the vaguest of ways, or in porn.

There's a gender Ideology myth, I think it's number 20 the relates to this comment
On the other hand, it's denying adoptive parents the experience of being a "mother", so really, fuck that. It's exclusionary and insulting. Adoptive mothers are mothers!

No one is saying adoptive parents aren't real parents (and the debate around this has been open since forever, and last time I checked no one has been sent rape or death threats for holding the opinion that adoptive parents aren't the same as biological parents...)