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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

733 replies

RedthroatedCaracara · 06/06/2021 11:20

because all females need to be aware of this

And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

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lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 17:29

But what about all the tweets pumper, can you genuinely not see a health issue for an autism charity tweeting that autistics with cervixes need to step forward for smears.

I think you are in complete denial that this is happening, for reasons I can't fathom.

If my daughter saw that tweet she wouldn't know that applies to her!

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 17:17

@Datun

Anyway, I think I've explained this sufficiently, for anyone else reading this thread.
Probably, for anyone who already thinks it’s true.

But probably not for everyone else who thinks ‘is the word mother being erased anywhere?’ and the answer is ‘yes: on the welsh HR policy document, on the LLL USA specifically (not UK or international though) and on the Twitter feed for Guernsey.

But not the NHS website or Wikipedia or Cancer Research or the National Breastfeeding Network or the Scottish citizens advice bureau or on any.gov.uk site or the others I provided screenshots of.

Erikrie · 07/06/2021 17:10

Anyway, I think I've explained this sufficiently, for anyone else reading this thread.

Yes you have. And it's important to reach the many people that just read this without responding. This is how change happens. As we have already started to see.

florentini · 07/06/2021 17:09

let's hope so Grin

Quaggars · 07/06/2021 17:07

Well, that's us all told then Grin

florentini · 07/06/2021 17:06

@Datun just de-lurking to say, indeed you have.

Datun · 07/06/2021 17:04

Anyway, I think I've explained this sufficiently, for anyone else reading this thread.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 17:00

@Datun

I absolutely agree that transwomen shouldn’t be in female prisons. The two aren’t connected because nobody of any note is refusing to use the word ‘woman’.

You don't see the connection between woman meaning violent male sex offender when it can mean putting males in women's prisons, and a charity that replaces woman with cervix haver so it's not a necessary criterion for males who identify as women?

It's exactly the same agenda.

Putting males in female prisons is the extreme end of the spectrum that starts with redefining the word woman.

The only reason it doesn't feel like that, is because it's far rarer. It doesn't make it not the extreme end.

Anyway, I think I've explained this sufficiently, for anyone else reading this thread.

What's happened is that mainstream media is reporting on a move that would affect every single person, almost immediately. Unlike prisons.

That was stonewalls mistake.

Going after the word mother.

Woman was clearly being replaced all over the shop. People are far more emotionally invested in the word mother. (And, by extension, father).

It immediately affects everyone. You don't have to be put in prison, or a rape refuge, or play sport.

Hence the outrage.

And yes, this is very much something that is being pushed. Look at the Freddie McConnell case, going all the way to the Supreme Court. A legal, fully funded case, with one of the most expensive London lawfirms, that wants to eliminate the entire concept of mother and have it replaced with the gender identity of father.

The case is still ongoing, I believe. But Freddie wants to, quite literally, make the word father mean human who gives birth.

Legally. Set in stone.

Minimising it doesn't work, I'm afraid.

You don't see the connection between woman meaning violent male sex offender when it can mean putting males in women's prisons, and a charity that replaces woman with cervix haver so it's not a necessary criterion for males who identify as women?

No, I don’t. I might, if there were huge organisations like the NHS or Cancer Research or Wikipedia who point-blank refused to say the words ‘women’ or ‘mother’ but that’s not true. I’m not sure how many times I can say this.

Datun · 07/06/2021 16:53

I absolutely agree that transwomen shouldn’t be in female prisons. The two aren’t connected because nobody of any note is refusing to use the word ‘woman’.

You don't see the connection between woman meaning violent male sex offender when it can mean putting males in women's prisons, and a charity that replaces woman with cervix haver so it's not a necessary criterion for males who identify as women?

It's exactly the same agenda.

Putting males in female prisons is the extreme end of the spectrum that starts with redefining the word woman.

The only reason it doesn't feel like that, is because it's far rarer. It doesn't make it not the extreme end.

Anyway, I think I've explained this sufficiently, for anyone else reading this thread.

What's happened is that mainstream media is reporting on a move that would affect every single person, almost immediately. Unlike prisons.

That was stonewalls mistake.

Going after the word mother.

Woman was clearly being replaced all over the shop. People are far more emotionally invested in the word mother. (And, by extension, father).

It immediately affects everyone. You don't have to be put in prison, or a rape refuge, or play sport.

Hence the outrage.

And yes, this is very much something that is being pushed. Look at the Freddie McConnell case, going all the way to the Supreme Court. A legal, fully funded case, with one of the most expensive London lawfirms, that wants to eliminate the entire concept of mother and have it replaced with the gender identity of father.

The case is still ongoing, I believe. But Freddie wants to, quite literally, make the word father mean human who gives birth.

Legally. Set in stone.

Minimising it doesn't work, I'm afraid.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 16:35

@GCAcademic

No, of course, I'm not going to out myself by posting documents from my workplace!

In any case, i doubt that any evidence will satisfy you. What a pointless, bad faith discussion.

No, I thought you probably wouldn’t. I’d love to see some evidence though.
GCAcademic · 07/06/2021 16:31

No, of course, I'm not going to out myself by posting documents from my workplace!

In any case, i doubt that any evidence will satisfy you. What a pointless, bad faith discussion.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 16:26

@GCAcademic

More anecdata then, but no translation into real life. And I’m not sure how many times I can ask if the bill excludes the word ‘mother’ or not.

How are you defining "real life"? Because my workplace is my real life, and the erasure of women, mothers, maternity, is complete across all HR documentation.

What does it use in place of women/mothers/maternity? Can you post a copy of it?
GCAcademic · 07/06/2021 16:25

More anecdata then, but no translation into real life. And I’m not sure how many times I can ask if the bill excludes the word ‘mother’ or not.

How are you defining "real life"? Because my workplace is my real life, and the erasure of women, mothers, maternity, is complete across all HR documentation.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 16:25

@Datun

Yes plumper. I'm sure you can find more places where the word woman is used than not. But that's not the point. A point you seem to want to avoid.

The point is an agenda to decouple the concept of women from their biology.

Recommending the word woman and mother is removed, is just part of it. The fact that you can find places where it isn't, is so irrelevant, I'm having trouble understanding why you're doing it.

How else do you think convicted rapists, complete with penis, get put in women's prisons?

Woman, in that context means violent, sex offending male, convicted of rape.

That's how far the agenda extends.

If that’s the agenda it’s not very successful considering the NHS, Wikipedia, the government, cancer research and the NCCC are all using women. And the people who are not are the people who tweet for guernsey, an Irish charity and someone referenced in the telegraph.

I absolutely agree that transwomen shouldn’t be in female prisons. The two aren’t connected because nobody of any note is refusing to use the word ‘woman’.

Datun · 07/06/2021 16:21

Yes plumper. I'm sure you can find more places where the word woman is used than not. But that's not the point. A point you seem to want to avoid.

The point is an agenda to decouple the concept of women from their biology.

Recommending the word woman and mother is removed, is just part of it. The fact that you can find places where it isn't, is so irrelevant, I'm having trouble understanding why you're doing it.

How else do you think convicted rapists, complete with penis, get put in women's prisons?

Woman, in that context means violent, sex offending male, convicted of rape.

That's how far the agenda extends.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 16:12

[quote Datun]There are loads.

Remove the word woman from cervical cancer charity in Ireland.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hse-defends-removing-references-to-women-in-online-cervical-cancer-information-1.4357438%3Fmode%3Damp

Researchers say smear tests shouldn't refer to women.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4248200-Smear-tests-should-not-refer-to-women-says-study[/quote]
Further evidence attached.

If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article
If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article
Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 16:12

[quote Datun]There are loads.

Remove the word woman from cervical cancer charity in Ireland.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hse-defends-removing-references-to-women-in-online-cervical-cancer-information-1.4357438%3Fmode%3Damp

Researchers say smear tests shouldn't refer to women.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4248200-Smear-tests-should-not-refer-to-women-says-study[/quote]
The NHS website says women. Wikipedia says women. Cancer Research UK says women. The National Cervical Cancer Coalition says women. Public Health England says women.

If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article
If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article
If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article
Datun · 07/06/2021 15:38

There are loads.

Remove the word woman from cervical cancer charity in Ireland.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hse-defends-removing-references-to-women-in-online-cervical-cancer-information-1.4357438%3Fmode%3Damp

Researchers say smear tests shouldn't refer to women.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4248200-Smear-tests-should-not-refer-to-women-says-study

MarshaBradyo · 07/06/2021 14:50

@GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman

I’m disagreeing with how successful they are. Honestly, I can't be bothered to read every post between there and here, but language is being changed.

I tried to explain all of this to an elderly friend and I had to be so careful to specify exactly what I meant by 'woman' but to clarify to her what she might find included under that word.

I racked up my first deletion for using the 'wrong' pronoun of an unidentifiable transperson. I object strongly to being called a 'cis woman' but that, apparently, is completely acceptable.

Yes new work application with it creeping in ‘cis’ which I find offensive and hope gets dropped along with those forcing it through.
MarshaBradyo · 07/06/2021 14:48

Plus no one has to take interest although it’s clear many do given recent Stonewall situation. Although those least interested seem to be spending longest on talking about how it isn’t happening.

MarshaBradyo · 07/06/2021 14:47

I don’t do Twitter so what’s on there doesn’t cross my path.

But when the HoL spend hours with speech after speech, really good ones at that, on the word, then it’s worth talking about more.

Ditto when one the world’s biggest consumer facing companies write marketing copy to women but use body parts to describe us instead, worth looking at how we got to that place and what can be done to reverse it.

GrumpyMiddleAgedWoman · 07/06/2021 14:44

I’m disagreeing with how successful they are.
Honestly, I can't be bothered to read every post between there and here, but language is being changed.

I tried to explain all of this to an elderly friend and I had to be so careful to specify exactly what I meant by 'woman' but to clarify to her what she might find included under that word.

I racked up my first deletion for using the 'wrong' pronoun of an unidentifiable transperson. I object strongly to being called a 'cis woman' but that, apparently, is completely acceptable.

Datun · 07/06/2021 14:43

There's also gender replacing sex on school forms, right on the front page of FWR. And someone from the BMJ having to explain why biological sex is not trumped by gender identity in a medical setting.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 14:40

@Datun

Here is people with a cervix. Twenty minutes ago yet another thread popped up.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4264560-anyone-with-a-cervix?msgid=107998270

Stick around plumper. This is a very regular occurrence.

The word woman must be decoupled from her biology.

Thanks Dlatun. I’ll add ‘the people who tweet for guernsey’ to my list.
Datun · 07/06/2021 14:32

Here is people with a cervix. Twenty minutes ago yet another thread popped up.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4264560-anyone-with-a-cervix?msgid=107998270

Stick around plumper. This is a very regular occurrence.

The word woman must be decoupled from her biology.