If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

who like to think they are women in every possible way, and don’t want to be faced with the reality that these are exclusively female experiences that will never happen to them

I suspect this could be closer to the truth.

I suspect it is more to avoid upsetting transwomen, who like to think they are women in every possible way, and don’t want to be faced with the reality that these are exclusively female experiences that will never happen to them

Oh give over lol, that just seems like a load of projection/reaching on your part.
Not everything is about trans women when it comes to trans issues, even if some people on MN like to think so.

www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-56204865.amp

In fact, I think it one is wondering why we seem to not hear much about the issues, perhaps worth considering why so many people are afraid to talk about it?

Given bomb threats, rape/death threats, doxxing, job loss, no platforming, being kicked out of groups are some of the consequences that women have faced in the past few years.

Stonewall is a big charity with an income of £8,315,995 for the year ending 2019.

They are making a fortune (millions) out of training sessions - £2.5k a pop.

151 employees with 5 employees £70k to £80k and 2 earning between £100k to £110k

They need to make money. Their investments generated just over £46,000

Some people want to say "people who give birth" instead of "mother" or "chest feed" instead of "breast feed"? So what?

This
I'll still continue to be a mother.
I will still be referred to as one.
If I got pregnant again, I'd still be referred to as a mum.
If someone doesn't want to be referred to that way and nurses/doctors refer to them with their preferred terminology, it doesn't affect me in the slightest.
I'm still me.

To be honest, I have a suspicion that all this isn’t so much being done in order to accommodate the sensitivities of transman who get pregnant- I mean how many are there currently, like 4? I suspect it is more to avoid upsetting transwomen, who like to think they are women in every possible way, and don’t want to be faced with the reality that these are exclusively female experiences that will never happen to them.

Interesting how people want to derail the thread rather than discuss the issue at hand.

@EdgeOfACoin - the OP brought it up. I thought they might like to discuss this issue of policing what women wear a bit more.

But let’s talk about this erasure of women - any evidence it’s happening? Any midwives being struck off for using the word ‘mother’? Or can we agree it’s just a way of the DM squeezing more hate out of Sarah Vine?

Thanks, OP. A good, strong piece of writing from Sarah Vine.

If you don't think this is a big issue or something worth expending your energy, then fair enough, do feel free to move on with your day.

For those who are worried about the implications of, for example, Stonewall lobbying to remove the single-sex exemptions of the Equality Act, or the 4000% increase in teenage girls identifying as boys, or the upcoming court case of a woman accused of hate crime for tweeting a picture of a suffragette ribbon, or males now being accepted into women's sport at every level from small local clubs to Olympics, then there is loads more info on the Feminist Chat board.

So how prevalent is it really?

It’s embedded deep into universities and government institutions, including the NHS.

If you want to keep men (and I do mean men, not trans women, although obviously this also applies to them) out of hospital wards, prisons, rape crisis centres and women’s refuges you need to understand this is absolutely where we are at: any man who says he is a woman, no matter how he looks, not matter who he is sexually attracted to can now access what used to be women only spaces on nothing more than their say so.

If you think this doesn’t apply to you or is not something you’re worried about then you have been enormously privileged.

If you have been raped you can no longer ask for a biological woman to perform the exam.

If your sister is arrested by the police she can no longer ask for a biological woman to search her.

If your mother works for the police, she can be expected to perform an intimate search on someone with a penis.

If your grandmother requests her intimate care is performed by a biological woman, the NHS now advise in their training that she is a bigot and should be “re-educated”.

If your DD wants to go on a sports camp she can now be chaperoned by a biological male and excluded if you or her object.

If you’re not concerned about this, if you don’t recognise the safe guarding nightmare that lies ahead then you need to wake up.

If inclusive language encourages them to access a service and keep themselves well, what’s unfeminist about that?

It may be inclusive towards transmen but it is extremely exclusive to for example, women with poor literacy, learning difficulties or those who do not speak English as a first language. For those the language "woman" and "mother" is much more transparent and clear than "menstruators" or "People with cervices" and Clarity matters when it comes to marginalised groups accessing healthcare.
I'm not sure why the rights of trans people not to be offended should trump this.

It also NEVER works the other way round.

What is the issue at hand though? Some people want to say "people who give birth" instead of "mother" or "chest feed" instead of "breast feed"? So what?

The fashion will change soon. We'll all still be mothers and the world will not have ended because a few people used some silly terms for a while.

Interesting how people want to derail the thread rather than discuss the issue at hand.

Isn't it just.

Erikrie that piece in the Guardian/Observer is very good, and clearly sets out important issues.

Seeking an echo chamber is exactly what you’re doing. You’re turning a blind eye to the absolute atrocities peddled by that excuse for a newspaper because on this particular issue, you share the same prejudice.

Yes
The DM peddles all kind of hateful shit, they're recently pushing a narrative about migrants coming over, they must be taking a slight breather with this columnist.
At least Meghan Markle is gettiing a rest from their garbage too, maybe even they got bored with the sheer volume of crap they were sending her way.
Comes across as "they're alright now as I agree with them on prejudice towards trans people"

[quote Pumperthepumper]@RedthroatedCaracara you still haven’t said what point she has over how low cut a woman’s dress is?[/quote]
Interesting how people want to derail the thread rather than discuss the issue at hand.

Quite obvious, really.

@ComtesseDeSpair - Ironically me thinking like your comment is what 'peaked' me! It's exactly because 99.9% of people (including a huge amount of the LGBTplus community) are not bothered about any of this nonsense, that it seems so mad to me that institutions are spending a huge huge amount of money and time changing policies for the tiny, TINY percentage it affects. I mean how many transmen actually give birth in the UK every year? While I personally agree with @Sparklybanana's reasoning, if you did want to be inclusive the most you needed to do was to update relevant policies with a one liner saying 'this policies includes gender specific language but the privileges it endorses apply equally to transmen and no discrimination will be accepted,' or something. Yet instead organisations are rewording entire policies, guidance, public information leaflets (not to mention reconfiguring bathrooms) just to avoid upsetting an absolutely tiny but very vocal and bizarrely influential minority, and not thinking that, as @fantastaballs said, they are actually causing confusion and distress to a much wider group (anyone who is younger, doesn't have english as a first language, has a lower vocabulary or mental understanding, etc.) Ask 100 teenagers or people with limited english what a 'cervix' is, or who they think a 'birthing person' might be and I bet you wouldn't get much consistency, but 'woman,' and 'mother' is universally recognised!

You said you didn't know any organisation that has actually amended their policies. Is this just because you haven't been aware of it though? @AngeloMysterioso has just given her example and there are multiple examples on the feminist threads where NHS maternity guidance does use 'chest feeding' 'birthing person,' etc. As it's an example mentioned in the article, here is the Welsh Govts revised maternity/adoption policy gov.wales/sites/default/files/publications/2021-03/atisn14848doc56.pdf. Try finding the word 'mother' 'woman', 'women,' 'female' or 'breast' (because it also covers nursing) anywhere in it.

@RedthroatedCaracara you still haven’t said what point she has over how low cut a woman’s dress is?

Anyway, I'm not engaging with you anymore. I'm not getting much out of the experience tbh

Lol, #nodebate

So it doesn’t matter how much damage she causes to say, women suffering from mental health issues because she’s happy to slag off a group of people you don’t agree with?

This