If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

YABU for posting it here. I avoid the feminist section for a reason 🙄

Where is it happening?

Where there hasn't been pushback.

Language does matter. Stonewall, Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence, GIRES, Action on Trans Health and so on have all worked hard on trying to get the public - and more importantly, government, councils, schools, charities, big businesses and the NHS - to accept that transwomen are women, transmen are men (oddly, always in that order ).

You can only accept that slogan if you are prepared to accept that biology doesn't matter as much as gender identity. (I've never seen a clear definition of gender identity that doesn't involve gender stereotypes. When I was growing up we were trying to overcome stereotyping, now we're back to saying it's innate. So much for progress.)

If you do accept it, though, what you are accepting is that there's a group called women, which can be subdivided into transwomen and ciswomen. Because TWAW, and because there must be no gatekeeping, just immediate and total acceptance of anyone who says they're trans, you also have to accept all of the following.

• Male offenders, including sex offenders, who tell the police/prison service they identify as women will have their crimes recorded as committed by females.
• Same group may end up housed in women's prisons.
• Girl Guiding won't tell parents that their girls may be sharing accommodation with a transgirl or that the Leader is a transwoman.
• Transwomen are entitled to compete against women and girls in sport, even though hormone therapy and even sexual reassignment surgery (which most TW don't have) will leave the TW with most of the advantages of the male physique.

None of these things would be happening without the initial push to get transwomen accepted as a subset of 'woman' instead of 'man'.

I understand the concerns but if we look at historical trends the likelihood of a few poorly thinking trans rights lobbyists bringing this to bear are low risk

But that’s just it- it’s not “a few poorly thinking trans rights lobbyists”. These changes are being driven by one of the most influential, well-funded charities in the UK. There is not one person in the UK who doesn’t have dealings with at least one institution or company that is linked to Stonewall. And they are bringing this to bear. It is happening.

I just checked my workplace maternity policy and there is no mention of the words ‘woman’ or ‘mother’ anywhere. It is still called maternity leave because of the law, but now to score higher on the Stonewall Index, it only refers to ‘birth parent’ or ‘primary adoptive parent’.

This is so offensive to those who have gone through so much to become mothers - or fathers (‘non-birth parent’).

It beggars belief that intelligent individuals could be persuaded that these words are so offensive that they need to be removed from official documents. It is also very naive to think that gender ideologues want to stop there

The baby was not unplanned and I am not sure how Freddy's actions were consistent with the requirement to 'live as a man'.

I don’t think that - I might if it had passed. Loads of stuff gets knocked back, this isn’t an unusual occurrence.

Why do you think it didn't pass?

I don’t see that example as particularly problematic: trans men are biologically female and as such need the same protections and provisions as women, but often choose not to access services where they would have to acknowledge their female body.
This seems completely reasonable for eg smear tests (although they should say women and people with cervixes so all the women who aren’t anatomy experts or native speakers still get checked rather than excluded) to be inclusive , but .. breast feeding. Doesn’t this mean they have confronted the reality of their ovaries, and grown a baby in their uterus, given birth more likely than not through their vagina, with a midwife possibly on a maternity ward, all this is very much a big acknowledgment of the very physical reality of being female. I don’t get stopping there and saying no I don’t have breasts nor am I a mother, I’m chest feeding. Are we saying most such babies are unplanned, not that they have embraced the benefits of being a woman from conception to birth but decided to stop there? Genuinely a bit baffled at the reasoning here.

I referred to the Stella Creasy discussion earlier on. It's a long talk (well over an hour).

The majority of speakers use the term 'pregnant women' but Dr Male says 'pregnant people' every single time:

The guidelines are about choice and inclusion. If you choose to be called a mother then literally no one is going to refuse to do so.

Exactly

So any real evidence? Or just more ‘my neighbour is a trans midwife who regularly reports her colleagues to the police for not using inclusive language’?

For those undermining this by criticising The Daily Mail and Sarah Vine, a lot of these issues have also featured in The Times so I'm sure they will be in other news sources too. Only last week Matthew Parris had an opinion piece in The Times on how Stonewall had lost their way any many gay men who had been closely involved were now stepping back due to their extreme position on trans issues
Personally I am amazed that many younger women do not see this as important. My generation and those before fought long and hard for women's' rights yet are now expected to accept us being airbrushed out to suit a small but vocal minority

"But the powerful and hugely influential gay rights organisation Stonewall thinks such a fundamental belief is wrong. Not only wrong, but also discriminatory and very possibly wicked.

It asserts I must not call myself mother, nor be called one. Instead, I must re-educate my brain to think of myself as 'a parent who has given birth'. Not to do so is an affront to trans people, an attack on their right to gender self-identification"

This is patently untrue. Fear-mongering nonsense written to whip up a specific audience and by god, it's working. Honestly, the anti-trans brigade here will believe anything as long as it aligns with with what they already believe. It would be funny if it weren't so sad and dangerous. Imagine what you all could do if you used all this energy for good instead of... whatever this is.

Spot on from Sarah Vine, amazingly. Open your ears and eyes, women.

don’t know any Jewish people. Doesn’t mean I don’t get pissed off by anti-semitism

Poor comparison
No one can get to our age and not know about anti Semitism.

I understand the concerns but if we
Look at historical trends the likelihood of a few poorly thinking trans rights lobbyists bringing this to bear are low risk

I think other societal risks are way higher

Oh come on! They suggested changing the wording of a new clause, it was rejected, and that’s your evidence that not using ‘mother’ is now widespread? You must be able to do better than ‘something that might have happened but didn’t’.

No, the language was in the Bill. It had got through the House of Commons.

There was a hell of a lot of pushback from women to prevent this from happening.

Women have been fighting this for a long time. And been sneered at for doing so.

Yeah, I think an Act of Parliament nearly erasing the word 'mother' from a maternity bill is pretty significant. I'd be surprised if anyone didn't think that.

I avoid the feminist section because no deviations in views is allowed. Even mild disagreements lead to you being called a troll and a man. Life is too short.

I have posted this before it will be when the Daily Mail take up the fight against this utter trashing of women and girls abs I don’t mean the nonsense of women who have a penis 🙄 that things might abs hopefully will revert back to what is correct

We haven’t suddenly evolved in the last 6ish years so that now some women have a penis

I know many don’t like the idea of the DM being involved but social media isn’t enough and is terribly bullying to women

The Guardian certainly are not of the side of women and girls neither are the BBC and the Times doesn’t reach enough readers

www.thenational.scot/news/18936441.msps-overwhelmingly-vote-replace-gender-sex-rape-support-law/

@Somanysocks I prefer "ejaculator"