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Original poster

If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article

733 replies

RedthroatedCaracara · 06/06/2021 11:20

because all females need to be aware of this

And there's no need to have an attack of the vapours because it's a Daily Mail link. For all their multitude of shortcomings, the Mail at least have the guts to publish articles that stand up for women and girls.

OP posts:
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26
Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 11:29

[quote EndoplasmicReticulum]I just did a quick advanced search on here and found 3.

Black birthing people
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3964026-Black-birthing-people

Birthing people
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4118246-birthing-people

SANDS
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4059473-sands-sorry-if-upsetting[/quote]
There isn’t a link to the Instagram post on the first one, so I can’t see that evidence.

The second one is one post, and the OP later posted a screenshot of their policy which does indeed say ‘mother’

The third one is one tweet, but I’ll head over to the sands website now and check out their policy.

Would you class these examples as your evidence that it’s ‘widespread’?

EndoplasmicReticulum · 07/06/2021 11:25

I just did a quick advanced search on here and found 3.

Black birthing people
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3964026-Black-birthing-people

Birthing people
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4118246-birthing-people

SANDS
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4059473-sands-sorry-if-upsetting

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 11:22

@Ereshkigalangcleg

There have been lots of media articles, Pumper, not just this one, or you could try an advanced search or Google? It will take you just as long to do it as it does me. Or maybe someone else here will kindly post you some links.
I’ve already read loads of media articles - I also read the guardian one posted several times on this thread. If you’ve got some insight into how widespread this problem is, I’d love to read it.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/06/2021 11:12

There have been lots of media articles, Pumper, not just this one, or you could try an advanced search or Google? It will take you just as long to do it as it does me. Or maybe someone else here will kindly post you some links.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 11:06

@Ereshkigalangcleg

I have.

No, you haven't, or at least you haven't read particularly widely, as there have been many such threads about this issue in the last few years. So maybe you could take a look.

Do you want to point me in the right direction? Everything I’ve been told to google or to look up (HoL, Welsh government, LLL, Breastfeeding Network, NHS, Facebook...) I have, and have provided screenshots. Where exactly should I look that I haven’t already?
Tanith · 07/06/2021 11:05

“
And LLL International updated their Facebook page (very easy to do) 17hrs ago (very recently) and said ‘mother’. “

Excellent! We always hoped the rollback would be swift once the tide began to turn. Looks like it really is changing in earnest now.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/06/2021 11:05

And they don't all concern this one Welsh policy document.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/06/2021 11:04

I have.

No, you haven't, or at least you haven't read particularly widely, as there have been many such threads about this issue in the last few years. So maybe you could take a look.

DaisiesandButtercups · 07/06/2021 11:01

Maybe a female sealion or something aquatic.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 11:01

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Any evidence that it’s happening?

Perhaps read one of the many FWR threads about all different aspects of it across a wide range of sectors?

I have. The only evidence I’ve seen that ‘mother’ is being erased is that one welsh hr policy document - not even on the welsh government documents in general, just that one specific one - where it says ‘pregnant employees’ instead of ‘mother’. That’s it.
Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 11:00

@DaisiesandButtercups

The change is coming. It takes time to re write entire websites and they are beginning with new policies and articles. These organisations are run by volunteers.

But obviously Pumper if you don’t believe it and don’t think it matters anyway then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Perhaps we can agree to differ on this.

And LLL International updated their Facebook page (very easy to do) 17hrs ago (very recently) and said ‘mother’. Attached.
If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article
Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/06/2021 11:00

Any evidence that it’s happening?

Perhaps read one of the many FWR threads about all different aspects of it across a wide range of sectors?

DaisiesandButtercups · 07/06/2021 11:00

Female does always make me think of Friday Night Dinner. It always made me laugh, the dad was afraid to say the word woman or something? Also as other have noted a female of what species? Was he thinking of a female cat or dog or whatever? It seemed like the dad thought “females” were quite a different and mysterious species. Other.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/06/2021 10:57

I don't want people to think I am including any male people when I say "women". So needs must.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 10:57

@DaisiesandButtercups

The change is coming. It takes time to re write entire websites and they are beginning with new policies and articles. These organisations are run by volunteers.

But obviously Pumper if you don’t believe it and don’t think it matters anyway then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Perhaps we can agree to differ on this.

Any evidence that it’s happening?
lifeturnsonadime · 07/06/2021 10:55

We're being forced to use language that is uncomfortable BECAUSE of the TWAW mantra. For some people women is inclusive of transwomen, this means that female is the only accurate descriptor of women as a sex class.

Gender Ideology and small changes in language that are creeping in causes these problems.

DaisiesandButtercups · 07/06/2021 10:55

The change is coming. It takes time to re write entire websites and they are beginning with new policies and articles. These organisations are run by volunteers.

But obviously Pumper if you don’t believe it and don’t think it matters anyway then that is your opinion and you are entitled to it. Perhaps we can agree to differ on this.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/06/2021 10:48

I dislike "females" as a descriptor for women too, but the absurdity of gender identity ideology means that saying "woman" isn't considered enough. And I won't be adopting the ideology's labels for us.

Quaggars · 07/06/2021 10:48

Tbf I only agreed with the comment that said '' very Martin Goodman'' lol

OldTurtleNewShell · 07/06/2021 10:46

Nobody’s asking you to apologise for saying ‘female’ so you can cross that worry off your list.

Plenty of people criticise this, including on this thread. I've just put "stop saying female" into twitter or Google. There's a lot of results. This is something that women are being 'called out' on.

Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 10:45

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Nobody’s asking you to apologise for saying ‘female’ so you can cross that worry off your list.

Er, pp did criticise both OP and Sarah Vine for saying "female".

Oh that’s right, I forgot they said female in the OP. I apologise @RedthroatedCaracara
Ereshkigalangcleg · 07/06/2021 10:41

Nobody’s asking you to apologise for saying ‘female’ so you can cross that worry off your list.

Er, pp did criticise both OP and Sarah Vine for saying "female".

Defaultname · 07/06/2021 10:40

@QuentinBunbury

So I see this thread got corralled into FWR without even a comment Sad
I'm waiting for Roy Rogers to open a ranch called 'The Lazy T' !
Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 10:38

@RedthroatedCaracara

Those of us reading who are outside of the monomaniacal, tiny little echo chamber to be found here are doing the right thing on a daily basis. In real time. And doing that in the knowledge that we can look back and know we weren't part of your hatred

I live my entire life outside this "monomaniacal, tiny little echo chamber" where no one knows any transpeople (seriously, where are they?) and are unaware of the threats to women's lives. The battle will start when Jess-who-was-Josh comes in too hard for a tackle in the girls football team and injuries a girl. Or Maisie-who-was-Mark puts her lippy on next to my MiL in John Lewis's toilets.

I have no hatred for transwomen but I knew you can't change sex, that females are mothers (by birth or adoption) and women's rights to single sex spaces must be protected.

And I won't apologise for saying "female"

Nobody’s asking you to apologise for saying ‘female’ so you can cross that worry off your list.
Pumperthepumper · 07/06/2021 10:37

@DaisiesandButtercups

You will note that I didn’t mention “chest feeding” nor “pregnant employees”.

My post was specifically about breastfeeding organisations rather than employers.

You can find the policies of the various breastfeeding organisations on their websites and their social media posts are available for all to view.

My argument about losing bodily autonomy is specific to the use of gender neutral language in maternity, currently care is intended to be woman centred. If it becomes parent centred then the woman is no longer prioritised, instead any co-parent, usually the father is given equal importance and equal say in what happens to the childbearing woman. If it becomes family centred then who else gets a say in what happens to her during pregnancy and birth? This may initially only be linguistic but language clearly matters and influences practice and policy by changing culture.

Can only upload three pics at once so here’s the others.
If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article
If you avoid the feminist section then at least read this article