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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Best responses for being asked for pronouns in person

312 replies

Seraphinite · 05/06/2021 23:33

I’m going to a residential training course (not UK) and I suspect they will ask us for pronouns when we introduce ourselves on day one. (I’ve been to something with this organization before and have seen it)

What are some good responses I can give? Is saying ‘I prefer not to say’ best?

I don’t want to draw attention to it, be adversarial or open up discussion, I just don’t want to answer.

(For avoidance of doubt, I don’t buy in to gender ideology so that’s why I don’t want to answer. To me, stating my pronouns indicates I think it’s an ok question to ask in the first place )

OP posts:
LurcherLot · 06/06/2021 18:28

Yeah, that would be pretty rude of me, wouldn't it?

It's almost like getting people's pronouns right actually is important for polite interactions.

MarshaBradyo · 06/06/2021 18:25

@LurcherLot

I thought the consensus was that it's my own choice what pronouns I use for people? If I've gotten OP's pronouns wrong and he's not comfortable with that then maybe there is some merit in stating a preference after all?
What you do this in a meeting if someone didn’t announce their pronoun? Call someone female he

Wondering how far you’d take it

LuckyWookie · 06/06/2021 18:24

My concern is that I’m expected to remember what pronouns a hundred different people have requested, and if I forget I’ll be demonised as “misgendering” someone. It’s impossible to remember them all.

LurcherLot · 06/06/2021 18:23

I thought the consensus was that it's my own choice what pronouns I use for people? If I've gotten OP's pronouns wrong and he's not comfortable with that then maybe there is some merit in stating a preference after all?

LurcherLot · 06/06/2021 18:20

@JoanOgden

But *@LurcherLot*, in practice it is perfectly obvious which pronouns to use for someone 99.999% of the time, based on their name and physical appearance. This is the case for trans people too - as they typically choose a new name of their preferred gender and dress accordingly. The only exceptions are:
  1. Non-binary people, which is an identity I consider rather try-hard in a work context
  2. People with unisex names or names from non-European backgrounds which are unfamiliar to most of their colleagues, who also have a nonstandard gender presentation. This is such a small group that I don't think we need to invent a whole pronoun-based performance just for them.
I think there are a few more exceptions than that, to be honest, quite a few people for various reasons might have names, physiologies or presentations that don't make their pronouns immediately obvious. But even if they are a tiny minority, if you do happen to have one of those exceptions in your group, what harm does it do just to say "my pronouns are she/her" when this is apparently genuinely your preference and what you expect people to call you anyway?
ArabellaScott · 06/06/2021 18:20

@LurcherLot

I clearly said in my comment if OP doesn't want to give his pronouns he should just skip it or say he'd rather not.
What a surprise that you'd assume the default pronouns are male.
ArabellaScott · 06/06/2021 18:19

@StellaAndCrow

"I think pronouns are wank"
Grin
MarshaBradyo · 06/06/2021 18:18

@LurcherLot

I clearly said in my comment if OP doesn't want to give his pronouns he should just skip it or say he'd rather not.
And that she’d face an awkward time being called thingy

That’s not really true is it

We’ve managed for however long not having to introduce ourselves with pronouns

LurcherLot · 06/06/2021 18:17

I clearly said in my comment if OP doesn't want to give his pronouns he should just skip it or say he'd rather not.

JoanOgden · 06/06/2021 18:14

But @LurcherLot, in practice it is perfectly obvious which pronouns to use for someone 99.999% of the time, based on their name and physical appearance. This is the case for trans people too - as they typically choose a new name of their preferred gender and dress accordingly. The only exceptions are:

  1. Non-binary people, which is an identity I consider rather try-hard in a work context
  2. People with unisex names or names from non-European backgrounds which are unfamiliar to most of their colleagues, who also have a nonstandard gender presentation. This is such a small group that I don't think we need to invent a whole pronoun-based performance just for them.
ArabellaScott · 06/06/2021 18:13

'be prepared for some people to be confused as to what to call you as a result).'

I've never, in my long life, been confused about what pronouns to use for someone. It's something that would only be confusing if one creates a made-up set of 'rules' that are counter intuitive and quite often contrary to socially accepted reality.

This is the point, of course. Destabilisation and an attempt to control other people's perception.

SwanShaped · 06/06/2021 18:13

The cat’s mother.

In reality, I’d say ‘what are pronouns?’ Followed by ‘why do you need to know?’

MarshaBradyo · 06/06/2021 18:13

@LurcherLot

Pronouns aren't gender ideology, they're grammar. You've used pronouns in virtually every sentence of your response to me. I've used 5 pronouns so far in this comment.
Having to declare them in a meeting us a new thing, do you agree or not?

Have people been calling you thingy when you didn’t do this?

LurcherLot · 06/06/2021 18:12

Pronouns aren't gender ideology, they're grammar. You've used pronouns in virtually every sentence of your response to me. I've used 5 pronouns so far in this comment.

WallaceinAnderland · 06/06/2021 18:11

(though be prepared for some people to be confused as to what to call you as a result).

I wonder how we managed all these hundreds of years with people being confused as to what to call us Grin

My pronouns hehe

MarshaBradyo · 06/06/2021 18:09

@LurcherLot

Pronouns aren't an ideology, for crying out loud, they're a part of speech. All it does is tell people how they should refer to you when talking about you in the third person, it's helpful for the same reason it's helpful to let people know what your name is, so they know what to call you when they talk to you or about you. If you'd rather people call you "um" or "thingy" or "them overthere" then by all means withhold that information, but it's your own life you're making awkward at the end of the day.

Those of you pretending you object to stating pronouns because you care about closeted trans people when you've never had a kind or sympathetic word to say about trans people in your life, you're fooling no one.

And those of you telling OP he should claim or imply that he is a closeted trans person, you're not only proposing he claim to be representing a group he is not a part of, which is dishonest and disingenuous, you're also potentially setting him up for awkwardness or trouble in his workplace down the line, if people make wrong assumptions as a result, or discover his dishonesty.

OP, if you don't want to say your pronouns, just don't. Just give your name and move on, and it's unlikely anyone will push you any further. If they do, just firmly say "I'd rather not" (though be prepared for some people to be confused as to what to call you as a result).

That you have to announce it is part of gender ideology. It’s not something we’ve always done is it? Why is that? I’ve never had an issue with people saying ‘thingy’, have you? Confused seriously that is a non issue for most, unless you’ve had that happen?

You go ahead if you wish.

Those that don’t want to can opt out.

I don’t see why you wouod get so exercised by people not wanting to do the same as you.

LurcherLot · 06/06/2021 18:04

Pronouns aren't an ideology, for crying out loud, they're a part of speech. All it does is tell people how they should refer to you when talking about you in the third person, it's helpful for the same reason it's helpful to let people know what your name is, so they know what to call you when they talk to you or about you. If you'd rather people call you "um" or "thingy" or "them overthere" then by all means withhold that information, but it's your own life you're making awkward at the end of the day.

Those of you pretending you object to stating pronouns because you care about closeted trans people when you've never had a kind or sympathetic word to say about trans people in your life, you're fooling no one.

And those of you telling OP he should claim or imply that he is a closeted trans person, you're not only proposing he claim to be representing a group he is not a part of, which is dishonest and disingenuous, you're also potentially setting him up for awkwardness or trouble in his workplace down the line, if people make wrong assumptions as a result, or discover his dishonesty.

OP, if you don't want to say your pronouns, just don't. Just give your name and move on, and it's unlikely anyone will push you any further. If they do, just firmly say "I'd rather not" (though be prepared for some people to be confused as to what to call you as a result).

BettyFilous · 06/06/2021 18:01

@WestendVBroadway

What's the big deal? Just say what your bloody pronouns are, and move along ffs!
Imagine a situation where you are regularly asked your religion at the start of every meeting. You are an atheist but saying that will get you into trouble with your employer who is firmly in the “everyone believes in God” camp and could see you summoned for a chat with HR. If you say “atheist” one of the believers in the room may also lodge a formal complaint with HR about you not showing respect for their religious belief and feeling unsafe in your presence, triggering an investigation. Or it will get back to your boss and be a black mark against you at your next appraisal or promotion review. Not such an innocent practice now, is it? Sadly this is the reality for many GC women with Stonewalled employers.
Lweji · 06/06/2021 18:00

You won't need pronouns if you use my name.

A good tip anyway.

RinderTinderNotRinderGrinder · 06/06/2021 17:57

I always go with “Luckily I have no preferred pronouns, but I do worry about forcing people to either out or misgender themselves when pronouns have to be stated.” Throw in a pained expression of super-extra-wokeness at how unwoke and thoughtless they’ve been by asking.

FlyPassed · 06/06/2021 17:55

@chrysanthemum5 I think you've cracked it! Bookmarked and screenshot saved

titchy · 06/06/2021 17:51

A very horrified and insulted 'Isn't it obvious' and a glare....

CrumpetShaw · 06/06/2021 17:46

Even so, I do like the analysis that my pronouns are not in fact mine at all, but belong to the speaker - they are part of their language, their grammar, so id say "oh, whatever makes sense to you is fine with me" - I think its a genuine response that's hard to take negatively.

CrumpetShaw · 06/06/2021 17:42

I mean transition to male, not make 🙄

CrumpetShaw · 06/06/2021 17:40

It really is silly isn't it. It's virtue signalling. I mean most names are male or female names and if I decided to socially transition to make, I'd choose a name that was obviously male, then if I didn't "pass" as male, my name when I introduce myself would make it clear to everyone that I wished to identify as male. No need for this pronoun stating at all.

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