Article on Shamima Begum

*Maybe it is worth thinking what she experienced in this country that so alienated her that she thought supporting Muslims was a priority.

Lets hope that in the same way as the US got rid of Trump we can get rid of this vacuous buffoon Boris who is in hock to the most appalling reactionary right wing little englanders*

So we should feel sorry for those whose experience leads them to support a death cult but not those who feel the dramatic changes to their way of live leads them to support a legitimate mainstream political party?

It may sound harsh but frankly I think it's merciful that her children did not survive because growing up in a filthy refugee camp surrounded by the poison of radicalisation is no life is it? those children in those camps are the next generation of bombers and murderers. What we do with them is a real problem

Wow.

The history of the problem is so complicated (isn't it always?) The West supported the Mujehedin against Russia and as soon as Russia pulled out, the Taleban was born. With American guns. The enemy of our enemy became another enemy.

Interesting replies. You're right, I was western focused because most people's reason for her not being returned is because of the danger she would pose the UK. And I don't recall Islamist terrorism in UK before the second gulf war. Excellent point about other places.

@Persona, where do you think she should go though?

i'd go back to the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 as the starting point. If US had never funded Bin Laden and the Mujahideen would any of this still have happened?

I would go back to the abolition of the Caliphate in 1924, and the formation of the Muslim Brotherhood in 1928...

One issue with most analyses of the problem is that they focus solely on the actions in the western world, and neglect what are fairly significant events and social trends outside of Europe.

Shamima Begum strikes me as a pretty intelligent sort of individual. I don't buy into the narrative that she was a poor innocent vulnerable female being exploited by predatory males. That's an underestimation of her in so many ways. She spent a long time choosing her path and worked hard to make it happen. That's dedication to a cause.

I don't know what the answer is. I do not want her to return to this country unless it's to a supermax prison where she can be monitored. It may sound harsh but frankly I think it's merciful that her children did not survive because growing up in a filthy refugee camp surrounded by the poison of radicalisation is no life is it? those children in those camps are the next generation of bombers and murderers. What we do with them is a real problem .

I feel a lot of sympathy for her, she was only a child and will be traumatised by what has happened to her.

BUT she is being made an example of for very good reason and I think the politics of this are important. She is extremely high profile and being dumped by the UK is the right thing to do. It’s awful, but it will make other women think twice, or make other vulnerable families discuss it with their daughters who might be at risk of doing something similar.

Do remember that is it only dual nationals who can have their British citizenship removed. Those who are British do stay and remain our problem.

Only once a dual national (or in this case someone who is eligible for a different nationality) has left the UK and joined a proscribed organisation is it likely that they would lose their citizenship.

That's about 120 of the 900 or so who did that. We're not exporting the problem wholesale.

i'd go back to the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 as the starting point. If US had never funded Bin Laden and the Mujahideen would any of this still have happened?

Viking. I think we should yes. Listening to part of the inquests for the deaths at Fishmongers Hall, you are right, there clearly is a threat, but this is our problem. We can't subcontract it to another country.

Especially when we helped start this whole mess with the second Iraq war.

For those saying she has forfeited her right to move in UK (a) where do you suggest she lives, and (b) why should that country have to pay to house her (and many others like her) and the expenses of keeping their own country safe?

She is British, she has to be our responsibility. We cannot wash our hands of her and make a poor country responsible.

The government has not given exact figures on the number of those who both left UK to join proscribed terrorist organisations and also had their citizenship removed, but estimates are about 120.

Shoud we be bringing them all back? Remembering that any/all of them could have been brainwashed and therefore pose and enduring threat

‘silly, impressionable girl’ whatever one feels about the citizenship argument this level of minimisation of her actions is unwarranted.

If a British male of joined Isis at her age after being groomed online through the same/similar process would you exonerate him of crimes so willingly?

If you have no loyalty to a nation, and indeed are committed to its destruction, you can't really be a "citizen".

That would make those who want an independent Scotland and Wales not citizens (I'm leaving out NI because that is more complex).

It could be argued Boris has no loyalty tot he UK.

Re: the recruitment of teen girls, there’s a really good drama on Netflix called Caliphate, where young Muslim girls are targeted, groomed, radicalised and taken to ISIS in Raqqa, from Sweden. Really recommend it, worth a watch.

SB is a British subject, and the British Government is in breach of international law in making her stateless.

True, but that piece of international law wouldn't have the slightest bit of democratic legitimacy. You're talking about elites signing a treaty when 99% of the public at the time could have thought that principle to be nonsense. I suspect a majority of the public today would support being able to remove citizenship of people where they join an organisation at war with us.

To strip them of citizenship, is just to formalize their own choice. They have already chosen to renounce their allegiance and loyalty to the UK. If you have no loyalty to a nation, and indeed are committed to its destruction, you can't really be a "citizen".

That said, as I say, I have a little bit of sympathy for her as she made the mistake when still a child. Well all do stupid stuff as kids; although mostly, it doesn't go as far as joining with terrorism, mass murder, taking sex slaves, and trying to build a fundamentalist religious fascist state.

Maybe it is worth thinking what she experienced in this country that so alienated her that she thought supporting Muslims was a priority.

Well she experienced freedoms and e.g. legal rules that you can't discriminate. Very different things to the "Islamic State" she went out to support. Maybe some people were nasty to her; that happens to plenty of people for various reasons. That doesn't normally result in joining a murder cult. And for all I know, her life in the UK was normal and fine.

@stumbledin perfect post. There is an undeniable racist undertone to this whole sorry tale.

Online recruitment of these girls and young women into Muslim extremist movements happens through targeted grooming, often by another young woman. This is well documented and doesn't just happen in the UK either.

Thanks for the link to this article.

She was underage when she left the country and whether or not you accept she was groomed, many young people get caught up in fanatasism. But going and living it, because of a rash ill thought out romantic idea of being part of some sort of revolution, is just as likely to mean she is suffering PTSD having gone through an arranged marriage and had 3 babies that had all died. Her lived experience was that of coercive control.

The comments about it somehow being a competition with what happen to Yazidi women is just illogical. And ignores the main subject of the article. That is that a Kurdish woman who had personally suffered tragedy because of ISIS has the humanity and believe in women to work with women who had become part of, or were appendages of, ISIS.

And really that reactionary nonsense about her father and Bangladesh is straight out of the ring wing racist play book.

SB is a British subject, and the British Government is in breach of international law in making her stateless.

She is our responsibility. She should be returned to the UK and stand trial.

Maybe it is worth thinking what she experienced in this country that so alienated her that she thought supporting Muslims was a priority.

Lets hope that in the same way as the US got rid of Trump we can get rid of this vacuous buffoon Boris who is in hock to the most appalling reactionary right wing little englanders who he is endlessly currying favour with.

Anyone interested in this topic should read “Guest House for Young Widows” by Azadeh Moaveni. It really is very good.

Surely she is in a lose lose situation. If she says she regrets what she has done and hates ISIS then she puts herself at risk. If she doesn't show enough remorse then she won't get help from the UK government. I've been a silly teenager. She was clearly seduced into this lifestyle and didn't really know what it would entail. Poor girl

The linked article says SB had she continued to have British citizenship (which she does not) and were she able to get out of the prison camp would need 10 years of help, presumably therapy. I wonder who will pay for that? Her father is in Bangladesh where he is from. May be he can raise funds and try to negotiate with the kurds to get her out.

These women are certainly bottom of most of our lists in terms of who needs help - I put the yazidis will above her and certainly the local kurds who are having to pay to house all these people in the camps.

If I were in difficulties in Brazil, say, the British Government would not spend a penny finding me lawyers, getting me released from a local jail, paying my air fair so I am not sure why those in these prison camps think they should be treated better than law abiding UK citizens in difficulties abroad.

However like most people I do feel sorry for her losing three children. Choosing to have children in a war zone rather than saying in London and having them though was her choice - in a sense she put her future children at risk by going there to help found an islamic state where hands were cut off for theft, gays thrown from the top of buildings, women beaten if they showed their hands and much worse - much of the rules over women being enforced by isis women, not the men.

Or.....it’s the truth. This is a common recruitment tactic.