Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I don't much care for the 'gender critical' handle. Is there anything better.

128 replies

JustcameoutGC · 04/06/2021 21:12

I am relatively new to the Women's versus trans rights debate. Despite my very lefty leanings, I have ended up on the gender critical side for a few reasons. My training as a scientist, my sense of fairness, my personal reaction to the attempted erasure of language like 'women' and 'mother' and the hideous places that he total enforce t of TWAW takes us.

However, I really don't like the terminology of gender critical feminist. I would much rather be defined by what I do believe in rather that what I am critical of. And I am not critical of gender per se, it is the pseudo religion of gender ideology that I have a beef with.

I know sex is real, and immutable
Sport needs to be fair for it to work
Women on jail need to be free of worry about rape
Women need single sex spaces

Is there a terminology that frames this position in a less negative way than 'gender critical'?

OP posts:
Imasoulman · 04/06/2021 23:21

@JustcameoutGC

In work, several gender neutral / non binary trans individuals with a range a pronouns, which our SW influenced training has said we must observe.

To me this is asking me to deny the evidence of my eyes and ears and to validate the chosen self professed identities of individuals through the compelled use of pronouns. In my book anyone can refer to themselves any which want they choose, but expecting me to do likewise is compelled validation.

So really this is more to do with you objecting to how people identify rather than this perceived request for validation?

Transgender folk don't want your validation they just want to be left alone.

I think you like most people who are obsessed with Stone Wall lose sight of the fact that the genuinely transgender are not the same as the people who self id.

Probably best to fight Stone Wall rather than Transgender folk.

alexyyy · 04/06/2021 23:19

I am tired of all labels. I prefer to think things through for myself, make the arguments that I believe in and live my life and make my choices moment by moment. Labels can be helpful in finding like minded others, accessing services, helping understanding etc but they can also be limiting and dehumanising.

GNCQ · 04/06/2021 23:13

*I'm just interested when you have personally been asked to validate somebody's identity.
Genuinely interested"

Everyone has a trans acquaintance who doesn't pass, or you haven't lived.

MiladyBerserko · 04/06/2021 23:08

What do you mean 'despite' your left leanings?

CardinalLolzy · 04/06/2021 23:07

Think I remember your fairly recent "just came out gc" thread, op - hope it's all going well!

Original poster
JustcameoutGC · 04/06/2021 23:06

In work, several gender neutral / non binary trans individuals with a range a pronouns, which our SW influenced training has said we must observe.

To me this is asking me to deny the evidence of my eyes and ears and to validate the chosen self professed identities of individuals through the compelled use of pronouns. In my book anyone can refer to themselves any which want they choose, but expecting me to do likewise is compelled validation.

OP posts:
CardinalLolzy · 04/06/2021 23:06

We're sex people, Lynn

Imasoulman · 04/06/2021 23:01

@JustcameoutGC

Pronouns, happy for anyone to pick and choose their own. Much less happy being expected to reflect their personal choices back at them.

People's identity rather than biology giving them access to my spaces, so they can feel more valid in their chosen identity.

I think I am a fucking amazing singer, my rendition of Black Velvet is second to none. I don't care if my mates think I sing like a drowning cat (which video evidence may prove). I will be up there at the first sniff of karaoke, I just don't need everyone else to think I am Mariah Carey to do that.

I'm just interested when you have personally been asked to validate somebody's identity.
Genuinely interested

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 04/06/2021 22:58

@ahagwearsapointybonnet

"Proper feminist"? Grin
I tend to just say 'feminist'.

But this is what I mean Grin

Original poster
JustcameoutGC · 04/06/2021 22:57

Pronouns, happy for anyone to pick and choose their own. Much less happy being expected to reflect their personal choices back at them.

People's identity rather than biology giving them access to my spaces, so they can feel more valid in their chosen identity.

I think I am a fucking amazing singer, my rendition of Black Velvet is second to none. I don't care if my mates think I sing like a drowning cat (which video evidence may prove). I will be up there at the first sniff of karaoke, I just don't need everyone else to think I am Mariah Carey to do that.

OP posts:
OhHolyJesus · 04/06/2021 22:54

Femalist (as opposed to feminist)?

Cyberworrier · 04/06/2021 22:51

Well done. There are bits of light appearing now, aren’t there? And conversations like this and that you’ve have had at work have all helped. Grass roots female centred feminism! 💪

littlebillie · 04/06/2021 22:50

@JustcameoutGC

"This may be my midlife crisis tattoo"

I may join you Grin

Imasoulman · 04/06/2021 22:48

@JustcameoutGC

In my book people.can identify any which way they want. Zero problems here. Just don't expect me to validate it.

What have you been asked to validate?

Original poster
JustcameoutGC · 04/06/2021 22:43

Pretty recent name. I made it clear I am a, shit what am I now, a female centred feminist, in work, in quite a public way. Have been chipping away since. We have left Stonewall. Conversations that could not have happened 12 months ago are happening. I have found some allies. SW shooting themselves in the head has really helped.

OP posts:
Cyberworrier · 04/06/2021 22:38

I’m with you there. By the way is your username recent? Have you just become openly GC on social media? I work vaguely in the arts so have to stay anon for work as it’s liberal feminist galore.

Original poster
JustcameoutGC · 04/06/2021 22:34

In my book people.can identify any which way they want. Zero problems here. Just don't expect me to validate it.

OP posts:
Cyberworrier · 04/06/2021 22:30

Yeah, but I think it’s less controversial to stand firm on biological sex if you can respect people’s chosen identities. And I think people who say TW get periods etc are really not mainstream, just twitter people, and make a lot of TW who have dysphoria but acknowledge their biological reality very uncomfortable .

MarshaBradyo · 04/06/2021 22:29

Words can get taken, I suppose the only thing not us chromosomes XX

Not that I want to use that

I’d prefer female, then to get woman back

Original poster
JustcameoutGC · 04/06/2021 22:27

There will always be the hard of thinking.

OP posts:
Leafstamp · 04/06/2021 22:25

@JustcameoutGC

Like it cyber worrier. Female, definitely less contentious as a word than woman. (We can come back for woman later, I will not abandon her)

Feminism definitely, it is a vital word and act.

Centred, feels very positive and focused.

Best so far.

It’s all very tricky as there are people who argue that TW are female.
Original poster
JustcameoutGC · 04/06/2021 22:24

@littlebillie

Just reading around my mantra will be

"Biology is not bigotry"

This may be my midlife crisis tattoo
OP posts:
PurpleWh1teGreen · 04/06/2021 22:24

Feminist.

Original poster
JustcameoutGC · 04/06/2021 22:23

Sorry for pinching your thoughts @GNCW. MN is like Shakespeare, about 1265 plays but only 7 stories.

Femalist? Hmm. I get it. But I don't love it. But I don't know why. I think it sounds a bit anthropological. A bit Diane Fossey?

OP posts:
Cyberworrier · 04/06/2021 22:21

Only problem is that’s the acronym for Gender Identity Development Service at the Tavistock!

Swipe left for the next trending thread