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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Paralympic male athletes like winning against women too

57 replies

YellowFish12 · 04/06/2021 16:36

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57338207

The photos are ridic, huge man celebrating beating women in a rcce.

I really hare the way the BBC has quoted verbatim the "sex assigned at birth" crap and makes a million references to "cis women".

Maybe I should identify as having some sot of disability and go compete in the Paralympics? I think I might identify as only having one arm, and compete in swimming.

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JellySlice · 09/06/2021 07:27

Is this article supposed to show balance?

'My Paralympic dreams dashed by 1.5mm' www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57404811

ArabellaScott · 07/06/2021 13:10

24 female athletes taking action against this

'24 Italian female athletes take legal action against male bodies in women’s sports. The sportswomen -including C. Sanulli and D. Neumann, beaten by trans V.Petrillo- claim to be deprived of fair competition, in violation of the Equal Opportunities Code.'

twitter.com/Radfem_Italia/status/1401787173389496320

feministpost.it/magazine/primo-piano/24-atlete-italiane-per-vie-legali-contro-gli-ultracorpi-maschili-nei-loro-sport/

CassandraTrotter · 07/06/2021 07:44

Would they change the term "cis women" if women (you know the ones who were born a women and have never doubted that we should be women) were offended by it? Doubt it.
Well, do even mumsnet do anything about this when women have repeatedly said it is insulting?

Peach01 · 07/06/2021 07:15

@YellowFish12

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57338207

The photos are ridic, huge man celebrating beating women in a rcce.

I really hare the way the BBC has quoted verbatim the "sex assigned at birth" crap and makes a million references to "cis women".

Maybe I should identify as having some sot of disability and go compete in the Paralympics? I think I might identify as only having one arm, and compete in swimming.

Would they change the term "cis women" if women (you know the ones who were born a women and have never doubted that we should be women) were offended by it? Doubt it.

I personally don't like it and am happy to just be a plain woman. As a woman, I've never felt it needed changed and I don't know anyone who does. Why are they making decisions on our behalf? We can speak for ourselves if we're not represented in a way we're happy with. This fight for equality is at our expense. Are they blind to the fact it wasn't that long ago we didn't have a voice?

CassandraTrotter · 06/06/2021 23:35

@NiceGerbil

Maybe the athlete in the article is not on testosterone.

I'm surprised that they want to compete in the women's competition though.

Yes it is almost as if they know they'd have no chance in the male category... For some reason...
NiceGerbil · 06/06/2021 23:26

Maybe the athlete in the article is not on testosterone.

I'm surprised that they want to compete in the women's competition though.

MiddlesexGirl · 06/06/2021 23:18

Yep. Move over women.

CassandraTrotter · 06/06/2021 23:09

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

MiddlesexGirl · 05/06/2021 15:52

@bitheby

This is at least interesting from the trans academic doing the research into advantage in sport

"Hormone therapy won't turn trans women into cis women but the goal, in terms of sports, is to mitigate the advantages that trans women gain by virtue of going through male puberty, to the point where you can have meaningful competition between trans women and cis women."

One of the first times I've seen an acknowledgment that there is currently an advantage that needs to be mitigated.

This.

What I'd like to know is what's being done to enable trans men to participate in men's sport so that the disadvantage they currently have is mitigated and they can compete on a level playing field.

When it can be shown that equal efforts are being made in both spheres then and only then can we talk about the possibility of trans women competing against women.

UppityPuppity · 05/06/2021 15:20

Nice summation of BBC bias with this story

mobile.twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1401054413574258688

The fact that we have to pay for this crap.

StellaAndCrow · 05/06/2021 13:08

That is such a good point about men who transition in their 40s/50s competing against women who are going through menopause. Such a stark comparison.

Sophoclesthefox · 05/06/2021 07:33

Simply astonishing that Paralympic sports, which are well used to the difficulties of rigourously categorising people for events, often against the preferences of the athlete in question, have failed to spot and prevent the glaring miscategorisation here. Women’s sports are not a consolation category for weakened athletes in possession of Y chromosomes.

You know what else happens to women in their forties/fifties that makes performance go off a cliff? Menopause. It’s a smack in the face for women masters competitors on every single level.

If it’s only about inclusion, why wasn’t the offer to be invited to run and train with the other athletes enough?

Delphinium20 · 05/06/2021 07:29

@JellySlice

Also what's with all the third person talk? Is it a translation thing?

Yes, translation from Newspeak into English.

Halo
Mummyoflittledragon · 05/06/2021 03:58

@howard97A

"I asked myself, 'Valentina, if you were a biological woman and had a Valentina, a trans, racing against you, how would you feel?' And I gave myself answers - astonishment, confusion and doubt.”

You’ve given yourself some very comfortable answers, Valentina. But more likely reactions would be rage and contempt - not only for you, but also for the governing bodies that force women to go along with the absurd pretence.

Was going to say the same myself. Valentina clearly has no concept of thinking like a biological woman and Valentina admits being sexist pre transition.

Clearly nothing has changed. No transwoman, who respects women would compete in women’s event. The way they perceive an (inferior) woman to think has no bearing on the reality. Cos y’know women’s thoughts and feelings centre around unicorns and sparkles.

howard97A · 05/06/2021 02:29

"I asked myself, 'Valentina, if you were a biological woman and had a Valentina, a trans, racing against you, how would you feel?' And I gave myself answers - astonishment, confusion and doubt.”

You’ve given yourself some very comfortable answers, Valentina. But more likely reactions would be rage and contempt - not only for you, but also for the governing bodies that force women to go along with the absurd pretence.

Pieceofpurplesky · 05/06/2021 00:40

Not much to say ...

Paralympic male athletes like winning against women too
HopeClearwater · 04/06/2021 23:14

The DM has a similar article

Pictured wearing what’s basically a jockstrap.

EyesOpening · 04/06/2021 22:59
thanks
Chilver · 04/06/2021 22:46

The DM has a similar article (I know, I know!), take a look at their headline image (the mid running one). If there was any doubt that we are talking about a biological male, that picture would seal the deal for me.

BessieWallisWarfield · 04/06/2021 22:46

Allowing trans women to complete fairly in women's sport is complex in the same way that the motion of the planets was complex when they tried to make it work with Earth at the centre.

Sports authorities will go down a never ending path of adding nuances and special cases and exceptions and tests and checks and balances and tweaking to try to make it work but new problems and flaws will keep popping up because it's all based on a fundamental error.

Spot on.

And any handicaps/special arrangements would simply reinforce the fact that some competitors differ from the rest of the group. Which would be, you know, unkind.

NiceGerbil · 04/06/2021 22:37

'Petrillo was hurt that some of the women at one event refused to be photographed with her, but says she understands their reaction.

"I asked myself, 'Valentina, if you were a biological woman and had a Valentina, a trans, racing against you, how would you feel?' And I gave myself answers - astonishment, confusion and doubt. I would have those things as a woman. So I believe these doubts and questions are legitimate."

However, she defends her right to compete in the women's category.

"I respect and comply with the IOC and World Athletics rules, I do the tests. I don't feel like I'm stealing anything from anyone."'

Ummmmm

Paralithic · 04/06/2021 22:33

Results are here:

www.fidalservizi.it/risultati/2020/Jesolo_FISPES2020/GaraC12.htm

www.fidalservizi.it/risultati/2020/Jesolo_FISPES2020/GaraA12.htm

I didn’t find the 200m results.

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 04/06/2021 22:28

@FuriousAndFrustrated

And while we're talking about the BBC, this anti-Mumsnet article annoyed me too:

www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-57285368

"On the UK's biggest online community for mums she didn't get the support she was hoping for.

"I went on to Mumsnet to find people like me, who would tell me it was going to be OK and that the way I was feeling was totally normal," she says.

Instead she was greeted by a wall of harsh judgement.

"People said I was ungrateful and didn't deserve to have children," she says. "I was told Social Services should take my children away.""

This isn't the Mumsnet I recognise.

She went on about being slagged off on Tattle as well.

Not a trace of her.

EyesOpening · 04/06/2021 22:16

@Paralithic

I wonder how old were the females this person was racing against.

In the Sept 2020 Italian Paralympic trials:

400m W T12 be results: two other athletes, YOB 1999 and 2002.

100m W T12 results: three other athletes, YOB 1995, 1968 and 2005.

where did you find that please? thanks
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