Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Just completing some Equality Act 'training' and apparently I got this question wrong...

137 replies

ChatterChattee · 03/06/2021 09:01

Question: Statistically, men have an advantage over women in education and the workplace.

I chose 'True.'

Apparently, I was wrong. The correct answer is:

'False: Men are paid more than women in the workplace. However, girls and women now outperform men at school and university."

Angry

There are soooo many things wrong with that statement! Conflating 'an advantage,' 'being paid,' and 'outperforming,' for one thing.

OP posts:
GCAcademic · 03/06/2021 09:42

@Svag

Ah, cross post. I see you think that girls don’t work harder than boys, but somehow have better teaching, despite most teaching being done in mixed classes.
Research shows that girls spend 20 minutes longer on homework each day than boys do, which obviously builds up to significant extra time over a week, month or year.
TeenMinusTests · 03/06/2021 09:40

Incidentally, how do you think girls perform better in exams, if not due to hard work?

Better teaching.

Of all the things it could be, I really don't think you can claim 'better teaching'. Most schools are mixed sex. The boys and girls get the same teaching.

You might be able to claim (though I'd want to see it backed up)

  • school teaching system favours girls compliant quiet natures and disfavours active boys
  • the exam timing system favours girls who mature earlier
  • the curriculum favours girls in the choice of texts / topics to be studied
  • parents are more supportive of girls' education
  • teachers focus attention on girls in the classroom (very much doubt that one)
VanGoghsDog · 03/06/2021 09:39

@thepuredrop

Yes, I complained about ours saying that and was told that while it technically wasn't correct it's the way most employers (mis)read it!

Surely this is a training need!

Yes, but that was the response from an international law firm, so I can't take it further. My employer is happy with doing it the way other employers apparently do it.
Svag · 03/06/2021 09:38

Ah, cross post. I see you think that girls don’t work harder than boys, but somehow have better teaching, despite most teaching being done in mixed classes.

GCAcademic · 03/06/2021 09:37

Even more charming than usual, today, I see PlanDeRaccordement. Go well.

thepuredrop · 03/06/2021 09:35

Yes, I complained about ours saying that and was told that while it technically wasn't correct it's the way most employers (mis)read it!

Surely this is a training need!

Svag · 03/06/2021 09:35

What a ridiculous thing to say. So when women make up 55% of university students and are given higher grades, it is due to “hard work” but when men are paid more than women, it is not due to “hard work”?

Are you suggesting that the women who worked hard at school, to the point where they performed better suddenly stop working hard when they move into the workplace?

Or are you suggesting that the men who worked less hard at school suddenly start working so much harder than the hardworking women that they deserve to be paid much better?

PlanDeRaccordement · 03/06/2021 09:34

@GCAcademic

Not really. The pay gap is due to motherhood, not education.

There is a significant sex pay gap in my workplace, where very few female academics actually have children.

I was talking statistically, on population level as that’s what the question was referring to. Not your personal little fish pond.
CardinalLolzy · 03/06/2021 09:34

The question is poorly worded and also bad for not considering or specifying which metrics they mean.

One could also interpret it as asking if there is a biological or innate advantage related to sex (or gender, presumably they didn't specify which) rather than a societal one.

I wouldn't really know what such a vague question was asking. I need specifics!

PlanDeRaccordement · 03/06/2021 09:33

Incidentally, how do you think girls perform better in exams, if not due to hard work?

Better teaching. Same reason why white people do better than black people. It’s not due to white people “working harder”.

Coming out with better results should advantage women, but it doesn't, as we see from the poorer pay we receive for the same roles.

There is no statistically significant pay gap between childless women and men in same roles. The pay gap is a motherhood penalty, not a woman penalty.

TeenMinusTests · 03/06/2021 09:31

Advantage means advantage. As in who is coming out ahead.

I wouldn't take advantage to mean that.
I would take it to mean who gets a helping hand or a head start.

Do girls get a helping hand / headstart in education? Is it aimed towards them? Possibly in the days of continuous assessment, but now terminal exams are back? Don't girls tend to get less teacher attention than boys? Aren't they discouraged from taking 'boys' subjects?
Does the 'classroom based' system advantage girls? Perhaps?
At best it is a moot point, certainly not proven that girls actually have an advantage.

Whereas the very fact we need equal pay acts to ensure women doing the same job are paid the same (and tribunals still need to take place), surely shows that women are still disadvantaged in the workplace. Similarly lack of females at director level, women having to take time off more when children are ill etc.

VanGoghsDog · 03/06/2021 09:31

@ChatterChattee

Oh it gets worse.

It's now telling me that gender is protected characteristic...

Yes, I complained about ours saying that and was told that while it technically wasn't correct it's the way most employers (mis)read it!
GCAcademic · 03/06/2021 09:29

Not really. The pay gap is due to motherhood, not education.

There is a significant sex pay gap in my workplace, where very few female academics actually have children.

Clymene · 03/06/2021 09:28

It's a stupid question. The fact is that despite poorer academic performance, men are paid more than women.

PlanDeRaccordement · 03/06/2021 09:28

Women statistically do have the advantage though. I think it’s sexist to be saying it is due to hard work, that is literally saying boys/young men are more likely to be lazy compared to girls/young women. When truth is that both sexes are equally lazy, or hard working.

UppityPuppity · 03/06/2021 09:28

So, despite the fact that girls and women outperform men academically, they get paid less in the workplace? I'd say that represents a pretty obvious problem that most people would recognise as a disadvantage.

Indeed - a double whammy - women and girls brighter(?) worker harder (?) know they have to put perform (?) - but still get paid less - a double whammy plus now it not seen as male advantage.

You couldn’t make this shit up.

GCAcademic · 03/06/2021 09:27

What a ridiculous thing to say. So when women make up 55% of university students and are given higher grades, it is due to “hard work” but when men are paid more than women, it is not due to “hard work”?

Please. Advantage means advantage. As in who is coming out ahead. Women are statistically ahead of men in education. This is an advantage that women have today (didn’t in past but do today).

Exams have an objective measure, at least, which is not the case in with how people are rewarded in the workplace. Incidentally, how do you think girls perform better in exams, if not due to hard work? Coming out with better results should advantage women, but it doesn't, as we see from the poorer pay we receive for the same roles. So, it's not actually an advantage, more a barometer of how women are disadvantaged.

ChatterChattee · 03/06/2021 09:26

@ArabellaScott

Sounds like you have a pretty shit training provider, OP. Do you know who it is?
Yes, but I would rather not share. I am going to feed back that the wording of their questions needs work.
OP posts:
PlanDeRaccordement · 03/06/2021 09:25

Email the training provider and you’ll look an idiot who doesn’t know basic skills for True/False statements.

ArabellaScott · 03/06/2021 09:24

@GCAcademic

You can only answer “true” if both are true- an advantage in education AND workplace.

But since one is false, education, you have to answer false.

Performing better in exams is not an "advantage". It's not like exam results are simply handed out to you. Working harder at school is not an advantage, and this is (at best) a very odd way of framing things.

Yes, but lots of men seem to insist that because women do better at exams they have an 'advantage' over men.
PlanDeRaccordement · 03/06/2021 09:24

@ProfessorInkling

They do have an advantage in education in that even if they under perform they’ll still be better paid later on.
Not really. The pay gap is due to motherhood, not education.
ArabellaScott · 03/06/2021 09:23

Sounds like you have a pretty shit training provider, OP. Do you know who it is?

PlanDeRaccordement · 03/06/2021 09:21

@GCAcademic

You can only answer “true” if both are true- an advantage in education AND workplace.

But since one is false, education, you have to answer false.

Performing better in exams is not an "advantage". It's not like exam results are simply handed out to you. Working harder at school is not an advantage, and this is (at best) a very odd way of framing things.

What a ridiculous thing to say. So when women make up 55% of university students and are given higher grades, it is due to “hard work” but when men are paid more than women, it is not due to “hard work”?

Please. Advantage means advantage. As in who is coming out ahead. Women are statistically ahead of men in education. This is an advantage that women have today (didn’t in past but do today).

OhHolyJesus · 03/06/2021 09:19

Who is the provider of this training?

I would be fuming at this and tempted to email them if my job was safe.

ProfessorInkling · 03/06/2021 09:19

They do have an advantage in education in that even if they under perform they’ll still be better paid later on.

Swipe left for the next trending thread