Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence & Fox killer launch appeal against Charity Commission over LGB Alliance charity status

596 replies

FindTheTruth · 02/06/2021 08:30

www.scotsman.com/news/people/lgbt-charities-launch-appeal-against-charity-commission-over-controversial-groups-status-3257923

"In April, the LGB Alliance was made a charity after the commission decided the group benefitted the public through its educational and awareness-raising activities about discrimination based on sexual orientation."

"On Tuesday, transgender children’s charity Mermaids launched an appeal against the decision at the first tier tribunal, supported by other charities and groups including Stonewall, Gendered Intelligence, and the Good Law Project."

OP posts:
Thread gallery
17
Original poster
FindTheTruth · 02/06/2021 09:47

I thought the LGB Alliance had been clear they are not excluding trans people - trans people are welcome to join, and if those trans people are LGB they may benefit from the LGBA's work anyway, it's just that they're focussed on sexuality rather than identity. Which makes perfect sense to me

Yes and they answer this on their myths page lgballiance.org.uk/myths/

"Truth: We fully support trans people in their struggle, for dignity, respect and a life lived free from bigotry and fear. We don’t hate trans people and we don’t wish to see them erased."

OP posts:
merrymouse · 02/06/2021 09:45

“Mermaids is proud to stand up for the rights of trans people in court, with the unbreakable support of our LGBTQ+ charity family.”

The family that can never decide whether to include I or remember A’s name, and would rather we didn’t talk about ‘+’.

SpindleWhorl · 02/06/2021 09:43

@Paralithic

Interestingly, Mrs JM is “exec sponsor for LGBTQ+” at Houses of Parliament Restoration and Renewal.
That's interesting. Here's her public, online entry:

"LGBT+: Claire Maugham
I know that people can only do their very best at work if they are able to be fully themselves, and I would like to be part of making the R&R Programme a place where everyone is welcome and valued. My children and their generation are more aware and empowered when it comes to LGBT+ equality, but through them I have learned about the challenges which still face LGBT+ teenagers, and this has inspired me to become an active ally."

Original poster
FindTheTruth · 02/06/2021 09:43

regressive, sexist & homophobic

OP posts:
ArabellaScott · 02/06/2021 09:42

Well, I'm a bit confused. Is the case trying to say that the LGB are not allowed to campaign on behalf of the rights of LGB people?

Is the problem really that they don't include the T?

I thought the LGB Alliance had been clear they are not excluding trans people - trans people are welcome to join, and if those trans people are LGB they may benefit from the LGBA's work anyway, it's just that they're focussed on sexuality rather than identity. Which makes perfect sense to me.

If it keeps them busy, I suppose. Good luck to them! Bring it! Lots of publicity for this one, please!

Original poster
FindTheTruth · 02/06/2021 09:41

War on homosexuals by heterosexuals

OP posts:
Paralithic · 02/06/2021 09:38

Interestingly, Mrs JM is “exec sponsor for LGBTQ+” at Houses of Parliament Restoration and Renewal.

SpindleWhorl · 02/06/2021 09:38

I was somehow reminded of this.

Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence & Fox killer launch appeal against Charity Commission over LGB Alliance charity status
Datun · 02/06/2021 09:33

@WeeBisom

When I heard that Maugham had a potential route to challenge the LGB Alliance, I have to admit I was expecting more. I think this claim has a very slim chance of success.

To be a charity, an organisation has to establish two things per the charities act 2013. They have to show 1) they benefit a class of the public (not just an individual.) and 2) they have to demonstrate a 'public benefit' (that is, the ends of the charity are actually beneficial.)

I've looked at the grounds and they are weak.

  1. Mermaids says they do not offer a 'positive' (public?) benefit to the public. But as per the charities act, something is in the public benefit If it campaigns for human rights or for the protected characteristics in the equalities act. The charities commission will have examined the public benefit very carefully before letting LGB Alliance become a charity. Mermaids will have to actively prove that, despite appearances, the LGB Alliance does not confer a public benefit despite being in a recognised charitable category. This will be very difficult to do.

  2. An organisation which campaigns to change the law cannot be a charity. However, an organisation can still be a charity if at least PART of what it does is charitable. So long as it doesn't wholly aim to change the law that is fine. Furthermore, if the charitable aim is to stick up for protected characteristics as per the equality act it would be very surprising if the charity were not permitted to campaign to keep that group in the equality act, or to strengthen the equality act.The LGB Alliance is just as political as stonewall and mermaids in that regard.

  3. the third point is that the LGB alliance only operates for the benefit of gay and lesbian people (missed out the bisexuals) who are not transgender and share their beliefs. First, operating for the benefit of non transgender gay and lesbians (and bisexuals, they are always forgotten!) is a large enough chunk of the population to benefit anyway. Mermaids is just for trans children and their families, which I imagine is a similarly sized group (if that.) The bit about beliefs is not the case. The charity is NOT just for people who share their beliefs. For example, religious organisations like churches aren't just for religious people. they are for everyone. The LGB Alliance can easily argue that they are for all LGB people.

Susie Green from Mermaids then says 'trans kids face overwhelming hostility because of who they are' which is very sad, but not an argument or to the point. Green then says 'the work of the LGB Alliance is to divide the LGBTQ+ community to undermine and isolate trans people,' seemingly not being aware that charities are allowed to focus on specific groups, particularly those in the equality act. 'sexual orientation' is a distinct protected category from 'undergoing gender reassignment.' Not everything, astonishingly enough, has to include trans people.

Very informative.

TRAs try to undermine LGBA by claiming they spend a disproportionate amount of time 'talking about the T'. But I'm wondering if confirming that LGB orientation is sex based is absolutely considered 'of benefit to a class of the public ' and is of public benefit - given it's part of equality law. And not only that, but orgs like stonewall try to say otherwise. (And have been publicly pronounced wrong).

So a charity not just promoting LGB rights but promoting the fact that sexual orientation itself is based on sex, not gender.

Helleofabore · 02/06/2021 09:29

Is this where JM learns that JM should have stayed in tax?

Paralithic · 02/06/2021 09:28

Charities can campaign for a change in the law, policy or decisions (as detailed in this guidance in section 2.4) where such change would support the charity’s purposes. Charities can also campaign to ensure that existing laws are observed.

Campaigning and political activity guidance for charities (CC9)

Page 2, Section 1.1, Para 5.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/610137/CC9.pdf

yourhairiswinterfire · 02/06/2021 09:26

Allison Bailey had done a thread on this.

twitter.com/BluskyeAllison/status/1399994128029605890

1/ BREAKING: As the LGBTQ+‘s stranglehold on British politics is rightly being weakened, the death rattle of these orgs that have blighted our politics are lashing out wildly & desperately. Mermaids & Others have launched legal action to remove @ALLIANCELGB’s charitable status.

2/ Just let that sink in. During so called Pride month assorted LGBTQ+ orgs, who combined receive millions of taxpayer money have the barefaced cheek to crowdfund to prevent LGB people having a dedicated organisation. Whatever good @GoodLawProject does, this is disgraceful.

3/ The silver lining is that, in my opinion, this vexatious & mendacious lawsuit will fail, because our democracy will not stand for this sinister & Orwellian manoeuvre.

4/ In the coming days, weeks & months ahead, I ask you to stand with @ALLIANCELGB. Bev Jackson & Kate Harris‘s organisation needs you more now than ever. LGB people are under attack by LGBTQ+ orgs and a heterosexual man, Jolyon Maugham. Step up, speak up, fight back.

ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 02/06/2021 09:24

Stonewall has been actively campaigning to change the law and misrepresenting the law to national bodies. People in glass houses and all that.
If this case were to succeed Stonewall would be the next target.
I think the case is weak and driven by a deeply worrying agenda.
The world today

  • Stonewall tries to get a black lesbian sacked for believing in biology
  • organisations some of which are headed by heterosexual men and women try to shut down an LGB charity and claim to be on the right side of history.
Imnobody4 · 02/06/2021 09:23

Good grief - is there any precedent for a bunch of charities trying to destroy another charity, doesn't seem very charitable to me. They really seem to think they should control the world and everything in it. Completely delusional.

NecessaryScene1 · 02/06/2021 09:22

This is fantastic. The more exposure and court cases the better.

If we've reached the point they're now starting court cases against government orgs, they've started doing our work for us. They're basically paying for their own downfall.

Remember Dentons, guys. You should be minimising public visibility.

Grin

Someone's ego has overtaken their common sense.

PronounssheRa · 02/06/2021 09:21

Is the fox killer heterosexual?

Yes, I only know this because he wore his wife's kimono while he clubbed a fox to death.

CriticalCondition · 02/06/2021 09:21

So if adding the T to the LGB is what makes the difference , how does Stonewall justify it's pre 2014 charitable status as an LGB charity ?
Perhaps is it ready to refund all the charity tax breaks it received up until then? No? I thought not.

Original poster
FindTheTruth · 02/06/2021 09:18

2021, where a white, straight, privileged man trying to get an LGB charity stripped of it's charitable status is 'progressive'

is the fox killer heterosexual? I only ask because Mermaids is led by a heterosexual. Feels like privileged heterosexuals taking over homosexual charities (and kicking out the homosexuals) and then lobbying to stop other homosexual charities from forming

OP posts:
Erikrie · 02/06/2021 09:18

Suspect that it may hugely bite them on the arse under the charity rules. I'm looking forward to how this plays out. Ouch. 🌦️🌥️🌤️☀️😎

PronounssheRa · 02/06/2021 09:18

Caselaw on this point An organisation which campaigns to change the law cannot be a charity would be very useful, because this appears to be the central reason stonewall exists

JustcameoutGC · 02/06/2021 09:17

I wonder are they getting their legal advice from Stonewall?

Artichokeleaves · 02/06/2021 09:16

Good, bring it on, the more publicity and open discussion of all this the better.

What this in effect boils down to is that the TQ focused organisations:

  • do not agree that it is ethical or acceptable for LGB people to openly state that they are homosexual and therefore will be recognising biological sex rather than gender identity

  • do not agree openly homosexual organisations are ethical or acceptable

  • do not agree that it is ethical or acceptable that homosexual people should have a right to organise or have independent groups of their own that reject TQ presence, supervision and rules.

Its an interesting position. Very similar to the one about female people and sex based rights in many ways. And it absolutely needs open examination, discussion and legal analysis.

vivariumvivariumsvivaria · 02/06/2021 09:15

I am learning a lot about silos from watching this unfold.

They believe they are right, because they have never had to examine their rationale.

This is what #nodebate got us. Ruth Hunt did a LOT of damage and I will be very sad to see Stonewall crumble as they did important work and improved society for the better. However, they are now fucked. It is such a shame.

The other organisations appear to be day schemes for idiots.

Original poster
FindTheTruth · 02/06/2021 09:13

something is in the public benefit If it campaigns for human rights or for the protected characteristics in the equalities act. The charities commission will have examined the public benefit very carefully before letting LGB Alliance become a charity

thanks for clarity @WeeBisom

OP posts:
Babdoc · 02/06/2021 09:13

I’m not on Twatter so can’t directly share the link, but I had to laugh at the post underneath the dotty’s friend pic.
It was a reproduction of the “who do you trust more” tweet:
Stonewall. 2%
Richard Nixon,PT Barnum, Charles Ponzi, Wile E Coyote. 98% !