Guardian article: Disaster patriarchy: how the pandemic has unleashed a war on women

What rights do trans people not have Pat? Women have sex based rights because, for millennia, men have abused and exploited us and our bodies. Because of our BIOLOGY. Biology no man has and so they are in no need of our SEX based rights.

I find it amazing that women fight so hard to hand over their SEX based rights to male bodied people. They were nowhere to be seen when women were fighting for their rights yet so many women bend backwards for them.

Do you think these people would fight so hard for YOU, Pat?

extract

"It matters to be trans in a world that has created a binary wherein there is only “masculine” or “feminine.” That room must exist in between and outside those categories is necessary if we ever dream of living outside their confines.

What I’m asking is not that the suffering and real lives of transgender people be ignored, but that we acknowledge that context, history, and socialization are real and also matter. That when little girls are taught to be pretty and polite, to not take up space, to spend their lives on a diet, to be desirable but also that they will be punished through that desirability, those experiences matter and happen to us because we are born female.

That we learn to understand our sexualities only in relation to what men want matters. That we learn our bodies are not ours, but public commodities, matters. That we learn our boundaries are “rude” and that they will be violated matters. That we must fear those we depend on (or even love) for our survival matters. That we learn to put ourselves last and to “sit down and shut up” matters.

That we learn solidarity with men will get us further than solidarity with women matters. We aren’t fighting against trans people, we are fighting for our lives and the right to speak about our lives, bodies, history, and oppression, as a class. We are also fighting against the notion that either femininity or masculinity are innate parts of our beings, an idea that reinforces male power and female subordination."

Continues

www.feministcurrent.com/2015/06/17/you-cant-feel-race-but-can-you-feel-female-on-rachel-dolezal-caitlyn-jenner-and-unspeakable-questions/

I think that the point being missed here is by you actually. Because there have been now numerous examples in answer to 'In what way could a trans woman, someone who has rejected their masculinity and instead taken on the social roles and presentation of a woman, represent the patriarchy?'.

And you have not given any discussion except to imply that any poster providing you with examples is 'hateful' and 'phobic'.

You are still missing the overall point. Trans women are not taking our struggles as women away from us. They are seeking their own equality alongside us. To be hostile to that is just hateful

Can you please explain how transwomen are doing this by insisting on access to female single sex spaces such as prisons and refuges? How are they seeking equality by removing single sex spaces? How are they seeking equality when they seek to remove the provision of female medical examiners from being able to be requested and confidently provided for female rape victims as evidenced by the push in the Scottish government?

They are seeking acceptance to get to the same level of acceptance we hold as cis women

You may be a cis woman. Many women on FWR find the term offensive since it imposes a gender identity on us without our consent. We are simply women because we’re adult human females.

Do you really think this is some secret plot to overthrow womens rights with men?

Here you go - the 'plot' was laid out in some detail by Dentons
www.google.com/amp/s/www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/amp

I'm not abusing or stigmatising anyone based on the discussion of rights. Are you really saying that being hostile to those seeking their own equality isnt hateful?

I see. Telling women discussing the conflicting areas of rights that they are 'standing on necks' is not stigmatising those women?

And that even us discussing these conflicts is 'hateful' in your eyes, but that is not stigmatising us? Please explain how that works .

I've not looked at the data for any of those things, but I can absolutely believe it. But for the last time, because I'm pretty sure you are just an outspoken transphobe at this point and so we can save both of us a lot of time by ending the discussion here, our struggles do not invalidate those of trans women, nor vice versa. There are areas of overlapping struggle that make them an ally not an oppressor. To claim trans women as an oppressor is to deny their struggles and our privileged position by comparison.

Goody gumdrops.

So do you retract your claim that transwomen are subjected to twice the rate of sexual assault that women are?

So a quarter of transpeople experienced crime. Versus 80% of women, the vast majority of whom thought it not worth reporting because they felt iy wouldn't be taken serious. So it is clear there is a long way to go before women gain equality with transpeople.

I still dont see how trans women can be anything other than a feminist ally.

Please tell us in detail how this works in your mind. And please give us examples of prominent transwomen who are feminist allies in your mind.

OMG! Did you really use the 'foot on neck' analogy?

Unbelievable!

As I'm not a "cis" woman, I wouldn't know. I'm a Woman, no need for the cis

Bad faith arguments? Since when has ONS data been a bad faith argument?

Nice to see I was ignored though 😁

Do you really think this is some secret plot to overthrow womens rights with men?

Do you really think that there is zero conflict between the rights for males who transition and females?

When there is a push to convince women that they should be very happy to have gender balanced boards with 50% males who identify as men and 50% males who identify as women. Or even that it is quite acceptable to for any board to report that they have good female representation on their boards because they have males who identify as women on the board but no females.

Are you saying that those males who identify as women have never had the benefits of being male, the default sex in so many instances? Or are you saying that because they have had some kind of struggle that their struggles are equal to the struggle of a female's so, that is ok.

They are seeking acceptance to get to the same level of acceptance we hold as cis women

Acceptance of/as what? By whom?

Do you accept that 86% of women aged between 18-24 have been sexually harassed in public spaces?

Do you accept that 71% of women of any age had experienced sexual harassment in public spaces?

[quote Helleofabore]You are still missing the overall point. Trans women are not taking our struggles as women away from us. They are seeking their own equality alongside us. To be hostile to that is just hateful

Actually, Baroness Falkner disagrees with you. A good thing too as she is chairing the EHRC. She has gone on record to state that women discussing the conflicts on their rights are NOT to be abused or stigmatised in any way.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-must-be-heard-on-transgender-identity-says-new-equalities-chief-kqttljxmd[/quote]
I'm not abusing or stigmatising anyone based on the discussion of rights. Are you really saying that being hostile to those seeking their own equality isnt hateful?

I still dont see how trans women can be anything other than a feminist ally. Most of the arguments have boiled down to 'they arent the same as us'. And they arent, they;re struggles are different. They are seeking acceptance to get to the same level of acceptance we hold as cis women, and the fact there is a corner of feminism that seeks to standan inch higher by keeping one foot on their necks is frankly disgusting.

You are still missing the overall point. Trans women are not taking our struggles as women away from us. They are seeking their own equality alongside us. To be hostile to that is just hateful

Actually, Baroness Falkner disagrees with you. A good thing too as she is chairing the EHRC. She has gone on record to state that women discussing the conflicts on their rights are NOT to be abused or stigmatised in any way.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/women-must-be-heard-on-transgender-identity-says-new-equalities-chief-kqttljxmd

Please tell us exactly how many transwomen have been murdered in the past year in the UK?

In what way could a trans woman, someone who has rejected their masculinity and instead taken on the social roles and presentation of a woman, represent the patriarchy?

thanks for asking.

Are you very comfortable that a male who has recently transitioned can represent the population of females at a university or in a political party to ensure that female needs are given the degree of consideration they need when those organisations are setting policy?

Are you comfortable that in these instances females will always be the priority for that person who has taken the 'women's officer' role? Such as recently in the Greens party when the women's officer implies just how amazing it is to be on estrogen supplements because they can cry now. Or like a very well known labour campaigner who told lesbians they were not allowed to centre lesbian reproductive issues in a march. Or will a male transitioner who is following Stonewall very closely make sure that lesbians are not abused in any way for rejecting a potential partner with a penis or for stating they are not now or ever interested in a penis.

How do you think a male who has taken a women's officer role will ensure that female needs are prioritised above any males?

Sport, Pat. Sport.

If you only take a single minute to honestly engage with posters here google Laurel Hubbard and then come back and explain what it is that female weightlifters have not lost.

Because if you step off that ideological expounding plank and look at current real life examples you will see just how much is being removed from women by the promotion of the idea that transwomen are women.

You are still missing the overall point. Trans women are not taking our struggles as women away from us. They are seeking their own equality alongside us. To be hostile to that is just hateful

But that is what you just explicitly did.

I told you that "more than four-fifths of young women in the UK have been subjected to sexual harassment" and you said they hadn't, so you could make the rate for trans people look more imposing.

You took away from women's struggles for transwomen. You denied that women were being sexually harassed. For transwomen.