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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Liz Truss urges official withdrawal from Stonewall diversity scheme

238 replies

BattyOrange · 31/05/2021 02:52

Sorry, I don't have a share token but www.thetimes.co.uk/article/liz-truss-urges-official-withdrawal-from-stonewall-diversity-scheme-9df7pvsrn

Basically, Liz Truss "is pushing for all government departments to withdraw from Stonewall’s employment scheme following a row over transgender rights." because "she shared the concerns raised by the EHRC over the scheme’s value for money, particularly as the civil service has its own in-house workplace diversity programme."

Whether or not the reasons stated are true (I have my doubts) this is a good thing!

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NecessaryScene1 · 31/05/2021 11:56

KJK:

HPFA · 31/05/2021 11:47

The trouble is, they still believe their own #nodebate hyperbole & have no plan b other than to smear & discredit those who stand in their way.

Yes, Stonewall has been undone by its own No Debate policy.

I realised that fully when the Superstraight thing happened. Activists fell right into the trap and seemed unable to respond to what was actually happening in front of them. Even now they continue to double down rather than pausing and wondering whether their tactics are counterproductive.

It's sad - if you're old enough to remember the beginning of civil partnerships etc you remember the very different positions taken by Stonewall then and how much more successful they were. But I suppose it's different when you're arguing a much stronger case in the first place.

OldCrone · 31/05/2021 11:47

[quote CaveMum]MP Liam Fox has tweeted his support for Liz Truss
twitter.com/liamfox/status/1399274922472521737?s=21[/quote]
Liz Truss is quite right to urge Government departments to quit @stonewalluk employment scheme. No place for them given their recent attitudes and behaviour.

Good to see that other MPs are supporting Liz Truss on this, but I think he is missing the point a bit here.

It's not just about their 'recent attitudes and behaviour', it's about government departments outsourcing their equalities policies and training to a lobby group. Lobby groups like Stonewall exist to fight for their own causes, not to advance equality for all. By signing up to their schemes, government departments have taken a side which effectively says that they believe that the protected characteristics which Stonewall lobbies for are more important than any other PCs. This is what is really unacceptable.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 31/05/2021 11:45

Just this week my friend lost her job of 10 years because she has been talking about surgeons operating on children and she was doxxed

Sorry to read this - is she in any position to contact Sex Matters for advice or take it to an ET?

teawamutu · 31/05/2021 11:43

[quote FindTheTruth]Another main stream media article
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9636351/Liz-Truss-urges-Government-quit-Stonewall-woke-workplace-scheme-trans-anti-Semitism-row.html[/quote]
Not a bad piece, but wish they'd been a bit clearer that GC=believing humans can't change sex. There are so many people who still don't get the terms.

heathspeedwell · 31/05/2021 11:42

Thank you to all the wonderful women of Mumsnet for getting the ball rolling that made this happen.

Thank you to JK Rowling for shining a light on this issue and getting it talked about by the wider public.

And thank you to Justine for being brave enough to allow these discussions to take place here. I'm sure it didn't come without personal cost.

EmbarrassingAdmissions · 31/05/2021 11:40

@Thecatonthemat

Good news. Now for the repeal of the GRA perhaps..
Alongside a clear explanation that GRA 2004 has been rendered null and void once the right to same sex marriage was established, equalising of pension rights etc. etc.

No rights are being removed, anachronistic workarounds are being acknowledged.

TheShadowyFeminist · 31/05/2021 11:39

Link to WESC session with former members of the LGBT advisory panel

This is the session that was referenced recently when the WESC had Liz Truss speaking to them, where one of the MPs referenced that Truss had been accused of creating a hostile environment for the LGBT panel. It's mainly a very long whingeathon but it's worth watching to see the number of ways that they're framing Liz Truss as not fit to run the brief on Women & Equalities that she has alongside her international trade brief too.

The GEO is no longer funding a lot of the groups linked to this panel. Jayne Ozanne's evidence in this session really has to be seen to be believed. The startling aspect is just how enthralled the MPs asking the Qs still are, with these lobbyists. Except they don't see themselves as lobbyists but experts and Ozanne especially is highly offended by Liz Truss' handling of the W&E brief. Listening to this session, it's the level of entitlement & the belief that these people have the power to push for Truss to be removed from the role she has, that is most remarkable. She's hostile. She's not showing enough deference to these 'experts'. She's incompetent. She's too thinly stretched to do a good job. She's changed the remit for LGBT planning. She's ended funding for some groups.

What seems to have been forgotten by these people is that the role isn't all about their wants, but is across a wide range of interests.

I'm not a Tory or support the Tories. But on this, I think Liz Truss is absolutely the right person for this job. She's got the measure of the grip these groups have had on the GEO & has taken the steps needed to loosen that. I think those groups who have lost funding really ought to have taken far better care over what they attached the GEO logo to, in order to claim their overreach was fully supported by the GEO. I remember that being the start of Truss publicly taking a stand & I think the era of lobbyists effectively running the GEO is entering its end phase.

Truss has moved the GEO out of the cosy Westminster lobbyist haven & severed the established networking that's worked so well for the lobbyists pushing the LGBT dogma agenda. And the lobbyists are well aware about what that means:

Link to Tweet by Christine Burns of Press for Change.

“ Relocation of a team which you regard as having gone native is playbook stuff. By initiating a relocation of the GEO team that is going to take 2-4 years Truss aims to neuter a department opposed to her destructive presence. She aims to break it by disorganisational means.”

So, the upshot is that Liz Truss is definitely across her brief a bit too well for some of the unhappy lobbyists & far from being 'incompetent' she's the 1st person with significant power to use that in ways that at least slow down the lobbyists agenda. They'll regroup and get set up to try & re-establish the networking & influence they've enjoyed for quite some time, but it will slow things down significantly.

The abhorrent claims by Nancy Kelly about 'gender critical' views this week should be seen within the desperate circumstances they're now facing - the gravy train looks to be coming off the rails & when those used to the unquestioning deference they've enjoyed while on this journey suddenly realise what's at stake, they're not set up for critical self reflection. They have co-opted every social justice narrative going & are in constant battle mode, unable to just stop the constant attacking of anyone who crosses their path. But even I didn't think they'd stoop this low in how they did that, at this point.

So, when Truss has made the decision not to support Self ID, and income streams are tied up significantly in your own pyramid scheme & funding pots, it might have been a better tactic to not attack the minister you should be persuading of your interests. The trouble is, they still believe their own #nodebate hyperbole & have no plan b other than to smear & discredit those who stand in their way.

I hope Truss continues to dismantle this house of cards.

Unsubscribed · 31/05/2021 11:28

Brilliant statement from Liz Truss, fingers crossed

newnortherner111 · 31/05/2021 11:26

Withdrawal and pointing out ways to support workplace diversity, however it is phrased, makes it probably only the second time I have ever agreed with Liz Truss.

Will drop a brief line to my MP.

nauticant · 31/05/2021 11:06

I was tempted to include in my email a comment along the lines of TedImgoingmad's post but even though there's truth in it, I was worried my MP would be tempted to dismiss it as tinfoil hat territory.

Anyway, I'll say this. Write to your MP. It only needs to be a short email saying that this initiative by Liz Truss is something that would be widely supported by the UK public because it is sensible.

PronounssheRa · 31/05/2021 10:54

Liz Truss is quite right to urge Government departments to quit stonewalluk employment scheme. No place for them given their recent attitudes and behaviour.

Liams tweet makes it clear this isn't about cost, it's about the behaviour of stonewall. I suspect the anti semitism comment broke the dam and has made people more comfortable with calling them out.

nauticant · 31/05/2021 10:54

This stuff is remarkably easy to turn into satire:

twitter.com/jebrux/status/1399297096864260101

However, it's becoming more difficult to distinguish between satire and reality.

Liz Truss's intervention encouraged me to write to my MP. I went for short and sweet saying that this was something that would go down well with the mainstream of the UK public, and certainly would go down much better than them being likened to anti-Semites for having wholly unremarkable and sensible views.

Leafstamp · 31/05/2021 10:48

Yes good point CaveMum.

The more people in influential positions that support binning Stonewall (and anything else that supports feminism) has to be a good thing.

CaveMum · 31/05/2021 10:42

@Leafstamp agree that he’s a knob on many issues. I suspect his support for this issue is also due to his background as a GP - he knows the difference between sex and gender.

PerkingFaintly · 31/05/2021 10:40

That sounds rather Dominic Cummings, TedImgoingmad. Politicians and their personally appointed advisors get caught doing something shit... so it must be professional civil servants' fault. Poor little MPs: too scared to know their own minds.

Talking of which, I expect that opportunist Cummings and his ilk genuinely will seize on this, just as he twisted his own Covid failings to claim they were somehow the fault of the structure of government. And claimed he Boris being unfit for office was the fault of the structure of government (nothing to do with the structure of your electioneering, then, Dom?).

And generally I think we'll now see a lot of this.

This board has done excellent work on the balancing of trans rights and women's rights, but plenty of other activity on the issue has very visibly been by people who blatantly don't give a shit about either. The disruption has just been a useful vehicle for their other agendas.

I suspect those people won't care which direction the train is moving. As long as it IS moving, it's an opportunity for them to say, "It was all the fault of [this week's bogeyman I'd like you to attack]"

proudwomansexmatters · 31/05/2021 10:31

YES!!!! Well done Liz. I'll be sending an email over to her later thanking her!

Leafstamp · 31/05/2021 10:30

[quote CaveMum]MP Liam Fox has tweeted his support for Liz Truss
twitter.com/liamfox/status/1399274922472521737?s=21[/quote]
Liam Fox is a knob about many issues, but he does understand this one. I suspect his PA - Ione Douglas - could be a life long feminist. Formidable woman.

FindTheTruth · 31/05/2021 10:29

Man at the bus stop and other TRAs claiming 'LGBT+ hostile government'

Tibtom · 31/05/2021 10:24

illegal guidance on gender neutral spaces which also pays no attention to their PSED.

LalalalalalaLand123 · 31/05/2021 10:18

@NecessaryScene1 I admired that sentence too!

LalalalalalaLand123 · 31/05/2021 10:17

Such great news!! Stonewall need to be out of EVERY organisation - schools, universities, all government, regulatory bodies, judiciary, police, local government etc etc. They are a misogynistic horror-show.

NecessaryScene1 · 31/05/2021 10:17

Props to the Times journalist for this finely crafted sentence:

The scheme counts 250 government departments and public bodies among its 850 members, which pay for guidance on issues such as pronouns and gender-neutral spaces.

RoyalCorgi · 31/05/2021 10:10

Reading the comments section makes me feel like those of us who knew we were on the right side of history now feel able to be open about it. I'm putting much more in my own name on Twitter and Facebook now than I ever felt brave enough to do so before. I know they won't go down without a fight but there are more of us than there are of them.

It's fascinating to watch. I've been gc for years but have largely kept quiet about it. On FB, I've seen the penny drop for more and more women, who are now starting to share gender-critical views. What's hilarious is that I still have one friend who has really drunk the Kool Aid and thinks the rest of us have been "radicalised".

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