Organisations Leaving Stonewall: The List

Not a derail btw

Just a reminder. I read upthread someone's organisation was converting to Gender Neutral lavs. They are behind the curve on this one. The Housing Minister Robert Jennrick announced that all loos in the Public sector must be single sex and those that have already converted to self i-d must now have a partition in place. It appears that businesses etc will have to follow, so any thinking of making changes now will have to revert back.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/stonewall-suffers-fresh-setback-in-trans-advice-row-j3p79gb2k

*I'd like to see an audit as I'm to my back teeth with firms that praise themselves for diversity and inclusion in their annual reports yet have some of the worst figures for employees with disabilities, the number/seniority of people from minoritised ethnic groups etc.

A few lesbians I know would be overjoyed if their companies left Stonewall.

I’m extremely grateful that my company never joined.

legalfeminist.org.uk/2021/02/04/shining-a-light-on-stonewalls-activities/

A few points - the Tik Tok kids are the university students of the very near future who will cancel the teachers backed up by Stonewall’s rhetoric.

LESBIAN women - are they allowed to say they are same sex attracted Helen? Are you able to say in your workplace that lesbian and gay people are same sex attracted?

Surely as a lawyer - words must be precise?

How do we know these organisations are no longer part of it? I'm aware of ACAS and EHRC from the news reports, but hadn't heard of the rest. Is it from FOI requests?

The Trans/NB kids you come across on TikTok and Instagram don’t give a f/ck. There’s thousands of them and I’d be astonished if even one of them had heard of Stonewall.

Until the trans/NB kids on TikTok are dictating policy in major public institutions and influencing the culture of some of our biggest employers I'm not too bothered. Hopefully as Stonewall is exposed as the toxic Trojan horse it is those kids will come to know of it as the org that set their cause back a decade with policies such as #nodebare, 'Acceptance without Exception' and their self-declared intention to dismantle women's right to single sex spaces and services.

The Trans/NB kids you come across on TikTok and Instagram don’t give a f/ck. There’s thousands of them

You know how you see thousands of emo kids but few emo adults ...

[quote Helen8220]@ArabellaScott I am a lawyer, and I’d say the precise words used are sometimes crucial, but sometimes a distraction from substance and meaning.

It’s particularly difficult to use language clearly and precisely when talking about sex and gender in the context of the law, because the legislation in this area is not entirely consistent or clear in its use of the terms. The Gender Recognition Act mostly talks about gender, and makes clear that a person can change gender, but does also talk about a person changing sex. Similarly the Equality Act, in the context of gender reassignment, talks about a person’s sex being reassigned.

So in that context I’m not sure how much I would criticise Stonewall for using the terms in the way it did.[/quote]
Well, again, I have no expertise in this area, but I think the potential consequences affect all of us, so it's important that terms are clearly defined.

I agree that the language can be confusing. I think the GRA should be rewritten entirely and any overlap or intersection between the EA and GRA carefully examined, discussed and assessed. (By people who are not lobbyists and who have expertise but not a personal agenda).

I would expect an organisation that has positioned itself as an adviser to - what - 20% of the UK's large companies? Would be crystal clear on the law and how it works and the precise terms. I would expect them to be able, willing and consistently up to the task of explaining the legislation, particularly the EA.

Yet Stonewall have clearly not done this.

This is not a minor failing.

This is a lobbying organisation trying to push a particular ideology - that 'gender' matters more than 'sex' - and misrepresenting the law to others whom it purports to advise.

To openly try to remove the single sex exemption within the EA is an act of such jaw-dropping misogyny and dismissive contempt for women that I can't quite grasp why anyone would still support Stonewall.

I understand that they may have done some good work in the past.

For me, the overarching aim of this organisation seems to have gone very badly wrong. They need to go.

Dorset police who charged at least 5 ‘women’ with rape in the last few years and arrested at least one women for tweets that were not against any law.

Yup. not kind. not inclusive. part of the problem.

Do all these companies who value inclusion make sure they've got the equivalent inclusion marks for disability and autism and other neuro diverse people?

That would be Dorset police who charged at least 5 ‘women’ with rape in the last few years and arrested at least one women for tweets that were not against any law.

Don’t the let the door hit you on the arse on the way out Stonewall; Dorset women are glad to see the back of you and can’t wait for the police to get back to understanding that rape is committed with a penis.

Do feel free to update the thread as more join the exodus.

How can we find out?

Nottinghamshire police force left because of the impact of the paperwork. It was taking too long to prove you'd met the criteria, when they were confident in their inclusivity.
They are also the force tackling misogyny. I can't remember the wording, but misogyny is treated as a hate crime here.

Look at the dates on most of those, though. They’re nearly all from the time when Ben Summerskill was in charge and Stonewall was still about the LGB

Yes. No one disputes that Stonewall used to do good work. But, @Helen8220, can you not see the difference between that earlier work and the lunacy of arguing that gender critical views are analogous to antisemitism?

[quote Helen8220]@Wandawomble they’ve undertaken a fair bit of research and published guidance on issues that affect gay and bisexual women over the years (as well as their campaigning on issues of more general relevance to all L, G and B people, eg on gay marriage and hate crime). Eg
www.stonewall.org.uk/sites/default/files/Double-Glazed_Glass_Ceiling.pdf

www.stonewall.org.uk/resources/pregnant-pause-guide-lesbians-how-get-pregnant

www.stonewall.org.uk/system/files/Domestic_Abuse_Stonewall_Health_Briefing__2012_.pdf

www.stonewall.org.uk/about-us/news/groundbreaking-research-lesbian-bi-and-trans-exclusion-across-21-countries-out-margins[/quote]
Look at the dates on most of those, though. They’re nearly all from the time when Ben Summerskill was in charge and Stonewall was still about the LGB.

EHRC
ACAS
House of Commons
DVLA
Dorset Police
The Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government
Bristol, North Somerset and South Gloucestershire CCG

I won't shop at Tesco until they remove themselves from SW

I'm sure Thames Valley Police used to be, but I can't see any evidence of them being now. No idea when they left though.

Stonewall help us make sure our policies are as LGBT+ inclusive as possible and prepare staff training (eg on being a good ally), puts us in touch with other organisations to share best practice, offers discounts on training and conferences.

There are lots of LGB people, myself included, who would not want to work for a Stonewall organisation because they have redefined our sexual orientation, and now tell us that if we want a female-only space to recover from the trauma of sexual assault or we only want a female providing intimate care we are as bad as anti-Semites. I would bet that being in the scheme is disproportionately excluding lesbians (unless you count lesbians with penises of course ).