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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What Gender Critical REALLY means: Gender Critical GC = Stereotype Critical SC = Oppression Critical OC = Demanding Equality DE = Prioritising Safeguarding PS

33 replies

FindTheTruth · 29/05/2021 11:15

I’ve been thinking about what Gender Critical REALLY MEANS after Nancy Kelley equated this to being anti semitic. Some observations, based on thousands of FWR posts in this forum:

Gender critical means criticising stereotypes ; We’re critical of stereotypes imposed by patriarchy. We reject teaching children the belief that stereotypes equate to gender identity. We say let toys be toys. Let children wear what they want. Let girls and boys play with what they want, dress how they want, play the sports that they want and do what they want. We reject adults teaching children that wanting to have fun, means that they are born in the wrong body or that ‘doctors got it wrong’. Thousands of females had short hair and wanted to climb trees or play with the boys. It’s fine. Thousands of males wanted to dress in beautiful clothes or play with dolls. It’s fine.

Gender critical means Demanding Equality ; We want fairness and equality for all groups and categories of people, including the female sex class. This means ‘nothing about us without us’ where each category is free to represent themselves in policy and law. To be inclusive you need categories; erasing a category = erasing their rights. . One category doesn’t have the human right to erase another category. One category does not have the human right to define another category to which they don’t belong.

Gender critical means Prioritising Safeguarding ; Nothing comes above the safety of children. EVER. Every female has a tally and at certain times needs single sex spaces, including refuges.

Gender critical means Oppression Critical ; standing up against the oppression silencing women in universities, political parties, public bodies, workplaces and social media.

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SunnydaleClassProtector99 · 31/05/2021 19:30

I always find it a bit interesting that yeahbutnaw takes their name from a show which pokes fun at men attempting to do ladies things.

It's like a burr in my paw whenever I see them post.

Just had to get that off my chest.

Beamur · 31/05/2021 18:39

I don't think you get to tell people what they believe. They get to do that themselves.
I don't recognise those lists as being GC thinking. You've got that wrong.
It's a good Venn diagram.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 31/05/2021 18:19

FWR poster...this is what I believe

Yeahnaw...no you don’t believe that at all, this is what you believe

Thats not in the fucking spirit now is it?

howtocomplain · 31/05/2021 15:33

Love a good Venn diagram...

What Gender Critical REALLY means: Gender Critical GC = Stereotype Critical SC = Oppression Critical OC = Demanding Equality DE = Prioritising Safeguarding PS
Helleofabore · 31/05/2021 15:13

I think what posters who post things like 'GC people believe x' when x is clearly wrong forget, is that patient FWR posters come back each time with well thought out answers. It makes for very educational threads.

We very rarely see a particularly clever or interesting take on the subjects though. I would really like to see more of those posts. It does get tedious seeing the same old trope being rolled out time and time again.

Lonel · 31/05/2021 15:10

@yeahbutnaw
Have you been reading too much Mr Topsy Turvy by chance? It's quite impressive how you've managed to grasp the wrong end of so many sticks.

TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 31/05/2021 15:07

@Blibbyblobby

The critical point being, it doesn't actually matter whether or not gender is real, what we need to focus on is that sex is very definitely real, it is not the same thing as gender, and female people therefore need to have space, recognition, resources and support to deal with the differences issues that arise due to sex. Whatever may or may not be needed by "women" based on gender is a separate thing and should not impact support for the female sex.
Hear, hear
TalkingtoLangClegintheDark · 31/05/2021 15:05

Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity.

No it doesn’t. It means limiting the category of those who can reasonably and justifiably be called “women” (for example). Limiting the category. Not limiting or reducing the people in that category to anything at all.

Can you grasp that distinction, yeahbutnaw? Now that this has been explained to you over and over again?

Do you have the capacity to understand that having a class defining characteristic is not a reduction thereto?

Either you have that capacity but choose deliberately to misrepresent what other people are saying. Or you don’t have the capacity and really don’t understand any of these arguments at all.

Doesn’t look good either way, tbh.

WhatWouldPhyllisCraneDo · 31/05/2021 15:03

@yeahbutnaw

Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity.

It means showing disregard for other's well-being.

It means you disregard the opinions of medical experts in favour of your ability to do a Google search.

It means peddling conspiracies about ROGD.

It means you support conversion therapy as long as its applied to trans people.

It can mean so many things in so many different contexts.

It's not the GC crew who refer to women as "people with a uterus"
Helleofabore · 31/05/2021 15:02

Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity.

Since you got the very first point so wildly wrong, I think we can disregard the rest of your points.

Gender critical accepts that women have their reproductive capacity and the differences in biology from males in common, and that rights need to extend to protect women because of that. However, our capacity to reproduce doesn't define who we are.

We are not the ones 'reducing' women to reproduction. We are not the ones insisting on calling women by dehumanising biological functions and body parts. We are not the ones who define women by 'binary' except in reproduction which is a biological reality and fact. We are not the ones who require everyone else to fit into a box we define so that we can be 'authentic'.

So, yes. Your 'Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity' is totally false and maybe you should actually start to understand why rather than parroting phrases you learn off the internet.

Soontobe60 · 31/05/2021 15:02

[quote yeahbutnaw]@Soontobe60

That's fairly homophobic. You just reduced gay and lesbian people to a set of harmful stereotypes.

Have another think.[/quote]
You clearly are not able to fully understand what you are reading. What I have said is the exact opposite of being homophobic. The exact opposite of reducing people to stereotypes. That’s the whole ethos of GC. To fight against stereotypes of any sort,

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2021 15:02
Soontobe60 · 31/05/2021 15:00

@yeahbutnaw

I forgot some:

It means checking your Likes on JK Rowling tweets every day.

It means calling yourself "superstraight" or "supergay".

It means pouring money into failed legal actions. Or to buy mattresses.

It means pretending to be LGB so people don't think you're a bigot.

It means supporting evangelical christian groups who will come for bodily autonomy next.

It means criticising Caster Semenya for having been born.

I haven’t done any of the things you’ve listed. And yet I’m GC. 🤷🏼‍♀️
yeahbutnaw · 31/05/2021 15:00

@Soontobe60

That's fairly homophobic. You just reduced gay and lesbian people to a set of harmful stereotypes.

Have another think.

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2021 14:59
Grin
Blibbyblobby · 31/05/2021 14:59

[quote yeahbutnaw]@Blibbyblobby

You've assumed that someone told me these things. They didn't.

I have eyes. I can see you.[/quote]
And yet nothing you have said describes me, so you may think you see so clearly but you are wrong.

You see what you think you see through your own prejudices. You are fighting a boogeyman of your own imagination.

And if you are wrong about me, what else are you wrong about?

Soontobe60 · 31/05/2021 14:58

@yeahbutnaw

Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity.

It means showing disregard for other's well-being.

It means you disregard the opinions of medical experts in favour of your ability to do a Google search.

It means peddling conspiracies about ROGD.

It means you support conversion therapy as long as its applied to trans people.

It can mean so many things in so many different contexts.

Utter tosh. GC means that you do not subscribe to the idea that to belong to one particular ‘gender’ you have to look, act, think in a certain way. Young gay boys do not have to be pushed into believing they must be girls because they don’t play football, don’t find girls sexually attractive, want to wear pink nail polish or make up. Young lesbian girls don’t have to have their breasts and their uteruses removed because they only find other girls sexually attractive. The myth that some people are born in the wrong body has been well and truly debunked worldwide.
yeahbutnaw · 31/05/2021 14:55

@Blibbyblobby

You've assumed that someone told me these things. They didn't.

I have eyes. I can see you.

yeahbutnaw · 31/05/2021 14:54

I forgot some:

It means checking your Likes on JK Rowling tweets every day.

It means calling yourself "superstraight" or "supergay".

It means pouring money into failed legal actions. Or to buy mattresses.

It means pretending to be LGB so people don't think you're a bigot.

It means supporting evangelical christian groups who will come for bodily autonomy next.

It means criticising Caster Semenya for having been born.

Blibbyblobby · 31/05/2021 14:54

@yeahbutnaw

Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity.

It means showing disregard for other's well-being.

It means you disregard the opinions of medical experts in favour of your ability to do a Google search.

It means peddling conspiracies about ROGD.

It means you support conversion therapy as long as its applied to trans people.

It can mean so many things in so many different contexts.

No it doesn’t. Those are gender ideologist lies.

No one who is gender critical believes any of that. A very brief perusal of this board or anywhere else gender critical people are speaking for themselves rather than being spoken over by people who claim to know what they “really” think will show you what I say is true.

So you can believe what we say about ourselves, or you can believe what others tell you about us and ignore what we say about ourselves.

I’m interested to know why you think someone who is not gender critical is better placed to say what gender critical people think than actual gender critical people?

ArabellaScott · 31/05/2021 14:49

Don't be silly, yeahbutnaw. That's all complete rubbish.

yeahbutnaw · 31/05/2021 14:46

Gender critical means reducing people to their reproductive capacity.

It means showing disregard for other's well-being.

It means you disregard the opinions of medical experts in favour of your ability to do a Google search.

It means peddling conspiracies about ROGD.

It means you support conversion therapy as long as its applied to trans people.

It can mean so many things in so many different contexts.

Blibbyblobby · 31/05/2021 14:24

The critical point being, it doesn't actually matter whether or not gender is real, what we need to focus on is that sex is very definitely real, it is not the same thing as gender, and female people therefore need to have space, recognition, resources and support to deal with the differences issues that arise due to sex. Whatever may or may not be needed by "women" based on gender is a separate thing and should not impact support for the female sex.

Blibbyblobby · 31/05/2021 14:16

@LazyHorizon

Perfectly put *@Blibbyblobby*
Although my personal view is:

"Sex is real and has a material impact through both physical differences and the hangover of a society built on patriarchy. Gender may or may not be real. Deal with the sex issues first, then see what, if any, gender issues remain that need to be dealt with".

LazyHorizon · 30/05/2021 21:28

Perfectly put @Blibbyblobby