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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Live now - Lizz Truss oral evidence to WESC: The role of the GEO: embedding equalities across Government

90 replies

FindTheTruth · 25/05/2021 15:55

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/e426820b-d147-4dc7-adf0-a1e21bfe6bb4

My aim is not to make this a specialised conversation amongst a few groups

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FindTheTruth · 11/06/2021 17:14

I've just seen a letter from the Chair of WESC and it's made me Angry

In this oral evidence to Caroline Noakes, Chair of the Women and Equalities Committee in May, heard that the disagreement with the former members of the LGBT Advisory Panel was over self-ID. So there are 2 sides to this debate.

After this, in JUNE, the chair wrote this letter saying:

"You may be aware that on 19 May we heard from former members of the LGBT Advisory Panel, who stated that the Government was creating a 'hostile environment' for LGBT people in the UK. We are concerned that an unwillingness to attend on the part of GEO Ministers will compound that perception."

WTAF?! what happened to neutrality? to balance? to both sides?

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PearPickingPorky · 26/05/2021 20:23

[quote Cleanandpress]Without a problem Crispin tells us. Despite talking about a system that doesn't acknowledge problems. The world according to men.

mobile.twitter.com/CrispinBlunt/status/1397530130428399619[/quote]
Note: "no recorded problems.

I wouldn't be surprised that no problems were recorded, myself.

Cleanandpress · 26/05/2021 20:19

Without a problem Crispin tells us. Despite talking about a system that doesn't acknowledge problems. The world according to men.

mobile.twitter.com/CrispinBlunt/status/1397530130428399619

RedDogsBeg · 26/05/2021 20:13

Some Twitterati people appear a little upset.

I bet they are.

I am not sure what Christine Burns is on about in those tweets, but on a general note some people are getting very upset and cross that things are no longer going their way on a nod and a wink and can see their power diminishing.

Paralithic · 26/05/2021 20:06

Saw this on Twitter today from the BBC’s Jessica Parker:

More from Equalities Minister Liz Truss today - this time on the #CassReview

She tells the Commons that the government wants, "to make sure that the under-18s are protected from making irreversible decisions about their own future"

Some Twitterati people appear a little upset.

RedDogsBeg · 26/05/2021 20:06

Thanks Eresh, I will put pen to paper!

Mollyollydolly · 26/05/2021 19:58

Just realised they're not an MP, an activist. Sorry.

Mollyollydolly · 26/05/2021 19:55

I'm blocked by Burns on twitter - never interacted with her. Another MP using a terfblocker?

Cleanandpress · 26/05/2021 19:52

Manchester Pride is giving Burns an award.

This Manchester Pride.

Drag them out by their saggy tits.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3350481-Homophobic-attack-against-lesbians-at-Manchester-Pride-Thread-title-edited-at-OPs-request

justawoman · 26/05/2021 19:45

Sounds like she’s threatening to be less friendly and collegiate with the government. I don’t think this will worry them too much.

Cleanandpress · 26/05/2021 19:37

It did read like a threat, but I am wondering who it's aimed at.

Where is Burns going next?

ArabellaScott · 26/05/2021 19:03

Is Christine Burns threatening something in that series of tweets? What, exactly?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/05/2021 18:56

My best Burns moment was when they and a group of TRAs were discussing the leaflets of a women's group and were speculating that they must have cost lots of far right money and been done externally. Because it's clearly never going to be the case that a grassroots women's campaign group could have professional PR, copywriters, graphic designers as members. So sexist.

ArabellaScott · 26/05/2021 18:49

They did mention Foucault's paedophilia in passing but were definitely more exercised by Truss criticising him while not understanding quite how clever he was.

Oh, aye, women banging on about a predatory rapist are just so shallow and bigoted, aren't they. They just don't understand.

Cleanandpress · 26/05/2021 18:48

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Burns really does think it should all revolve around what TRAs want.
Seems unable to process the reality that women don't just do as they are told any more.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/05/2021 18:41

Anyone know, for a non participant merely an observer and voter, if and where there is a mechanism to complain about the way this Committee conducted themselves? As a pp said it was the most impartial, agenda led, biased parliamentary committee I've ever seen and I want to make that point.

Maybe Office of Parliamentary Standards in the first instance.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 26/05/2021 18:39

Burns really does think it should all revolve around what TRAs want.

Stopthisnow · 26/05/2021 18:10

I don’t know if this has been mentioned elsewhere, but I noticed CEDAW was mentioned towards the end of this meeting, Sarah Phillimore has written an interesting article about the CEDAW People’s Tribunal and it’s definition of women.

“The Convention on the Elimination of Discrimination Against Women (CEDAW) is an international human rights treaty adopted by the United Nations General Assembly in 1979. Although the UK signed up to CEDAW in 1986, it has not yet been implemented into UK domestic law.”

“TheCEDAW “People’s Tribunal”was set up in July 2020 by founder Joanne Welch to examine the failure to integrate CEDAW into UK legislation and make recommendations as to how CEDAW can be given full effect with UK law. The “Tribunal” will start on 22nd June and is due to take three days. Despite its official-sounding name it has no recognised legal standing and is not part of the UK system of courts and tribunals that produced binding judgments.”

“On the face of it, this “People’s Tribunal” would appear to have a very noble aim—to improve protections for women and girls. However, the difficulty for many is that from its social media postingthe “Tribunal” is not operating from a legal framework that acknowledges the definition of woman. For instance, “a female of any age” as provided in theEquality Act 2010, but instead defines “women” as including “transgender women.” This arguably subverts the original intent of the Convention which was to recognise and protect women as a sex class and should be made clear to all those who support this venture, financially or otherwise.”

“Supporting changes to the term “woman”— to be defined by self-proclaimed “gender identity” rather than from sex—is exacerbated by the continued failure of this “People’s Tribunal” to answer any requests made over recent months via email and social media to confirm what definition of “woman” underpins their activities. Last week, Iemailedthe “Tribunal” directly requesting a response within 14 days while urging others to do the same. If we are ignored, then we will escalate this matter.”

“The aim of the “Tribunal” appears to be clear—to gather presumed “legitimacy” as a statement of legal intent by involving a number of high profile barristers and academics. The “ruling” of the “tribunal” will then be presented to law and policymakers as having some kind of binding or persuasive force that in reality it does not, and to cement the meaning of “woman” as being simply anyone who identifies as a woman on any given day.
This is precisely the strategy that has underpinned the “stealth” adoption of the “Yogyakarta Principles” as some kind of legally binding document, rather than simply the conclusions of a political lobby group... continues”

savageminds.substack.com/p/this-tribunal-cannot-define-woman

BessieWallisWarfield · 26/05/2021 17:42

The question at the beginning to Liz Truss about how she'd demonstrate that she was 'passionate' about equalities was bizarre.

Would Rishi ever be asked if he was 'passionate' about the economy??

Liz isn't marketing luxury branded goods for heavens sake, she's in government. What we need from her is a carefully thought-out strategy, and the Committee's job is to probe for weaknesses in that.

RedDogsBeg · 26/05/2021 13:59

Anyone know, for a non participant merely an observer and voter, if and where there is a mechanism to complain about the way this Committee conducted themselves? As a pp said it was the most impartial, agenda led, biased parliamentary committee I've ever seen and I want to make that point.

PearPickingPorky · 26/05/2021 13:52

[quote TheFleegleHasLanded]Liz Truss was very clear about protecting children from making 'irreversible decisions' in the HoC today:

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/cfd414ea-50e3-44ac-8300-2b7a94c9ab89?in=11:51:27&out=11:51:47[/quote]
Good.

We also need to protect children from doing things which may not be irreversible in and of themselves, but impair their judgment or lead to them making decisions which would have lifelong irreversible consequences.

Like how we do with children and alcohol, cigarettes, sex, etc.

UtopiaPlanitia · 26/05/2021 13:36

I’ve watched a number of these WESC information gathering sessions and have noticed that the committee do treat certain groups of witnesses differently: they have polite and friendly questions for those they agree with whereas, those they disagree with, are asked questions designed to try and catch them out or to diminish the evidence they’re giving - the committee members are less polite and more brusque (some are downright narky).

I’ve seen many Westminister committees over the decades (BBC Parliament is very useful) and I don’t often see openly partial behaviour from committees in this way - there’s often more attention paid to trying to be objective or impartial.

TheFleegleHasLanded · 26/05/2021 13:19

Liz Truss was very clear about protecting children from making 'irreversible decisions' in the HoC today:

parliamentlive.tv/event/index/cfd414ea-50e3-44ac-8300-2b7a94c9ab89?in=11:51:27&out=11:51:47

Shedbuilder · 26/05/2021 12:58

This jumped out:
I know that Stonewall has been developing really close links with advisors at Number 10 and other parts of Government, and so looking to influence the agenda in a different way

The influence of Special Advisors can't be underestimated and needs to be investigated when we get the Public Inquiry.