Elliot Page undergoes “lifesaving” “top surgery”

I don’t see the issue in saying “ life saving”, I’m sure for some it really is life saving and some trans people do take their life because they can’t have the body they feel they need. The only problem for me is how it’s covered in the press and how it may effect young girls/boys who are confused about their identity, mentioning surgery being life saving and putting the thoughts of suicide into people head, making them believe surgery or suicide are the only options.

I have nothing against trans people, I have trans friends but I do hate how it’s pushed in the press. Being a parent of a teen who is confused about sexuality and identity I feel the more it’s talked about on social media, at school and in the press the more confused out teens are getting. I support my dd 100% in who she wants to be but I can’t help feeling that the option to be ‘another gender’ is being pushed in their faces, it should be personal choice and not something that they feel they should do because others are doing it.

You say that whilst claiming to be a psychotherapist?

Anyone can claim to be a psychotherapist unfortunately. It's probably worth people knowing that if they're looking for a professional who is actually qualified to help them.

With anorexia there may be a crossover.

It's because "trans" is now seen as a core essence and "identity", and "Identity" must never be questioned (unless of course you "identify" as a biological woman or same-sex-attracted person). It is your "true self".

Of course that makes no sense especially given that a lot of people change their minds. Seeking identity and a sense of self, or adopting a fad to gain a sense of belonging and validity, especially when young, is not at all the same thing as being your true self - arguably it's experimentation that's part of the process towards self-acceptance later.

If feeling that you are grossly overweight when you are in fact underweight, and being terrified to eat, and making yourself dangerously thin, was seen as your "identity" and "true self" and people were applauded for being brave for "coming out" and schools were promoting it to kids as a lovely, fun, inclusive thing that you could be, it could go the same way.

It hasn't happened because it has more of a history of rightly being seen as a medical problem and less of a history of being wrongly associated with the completely reasonable struggle for gay rights.

I don't disagree but "life saving" is a quote from Page. It's not an editorialising, it's their choice of words being directly reported

I can see that that has happened, bitheby, but I would like to hear the rationale behind it.

I can't imagine a situation where an anorexic patient is 'affirmed' in their desire to weigh less; why is someone with dysmorphia born of gender dysphoria 'affirmed' in their desire to undergo surgery?

@ArabellaScott I think it's because of intense lobbying by trans adults who think their lives would have been better had they transitioned before puberty. Unfortunately they don't seem to accept that not all youngsters with gender dysphoria and body dysmorphia are likely to persist into adulthood. They also don't realise that the world has changed and trans is being used as the latest depository of teenage angst.

I’m happy to count something that stops someone from killing themselves as life saving. Really @WeavingWandering

You say that whilst claiming to be a psychotherapist?

Do you support your anorexic clients in their wish for liposuction?

Flaying for someone with feelings of repulsion for their own skin?

You would support permanent cosmetic surgeries as a 'cure' rather than helping your clients face the root cause of their dysmorphia?

So, in my teens that would have meant removal of all my ginger hair, my freckled skin and, in my late teens, both breasts. Fortunately the therapist I saw helped me realise that thses thought were projections from those who had bullied me at school. A long term, non invasive, more usual form of therapy!

I would be really interested to hear the rationale behind why dysmorphia for 'trans' identities is treated so differently than dysmorphia for anorexia.

It seems so similar to me - both conditions feel the body is unacceptable and go to extreme lengths to try to correct the body. Both are risky, and pose dangers to health.

Yet anorexia is treated so very differently. How come?

I have lost someone to suicide. The utter selfish irresponsibility of the reporting around this, and Page’s comment, makes me extremely upset and angry. Girls are falling for this ideology in droves. Girls who in a different era would have found another way through the struggle of the teenage years . Girls who see this porn soaked culture and don’t want to grow up into women, girls who have been abused and think being boys will protect them, girls who don’t feel feminine enough, lesbian girls.
Telling these girls that surgery is “life saving”, that their lives are not worth living unless they damage themselves in this way, is cruel and shockingly irresponsible.
I wonder how many people on this thread shoring this up have teenage daughters ? This is a trend among teenage girls. My daughter knows several girls who use binders for instance. Distress during puberty is sadly normal for many girls , it is when so many of us will have first experienced sexual harassment, or shame around periods, discomfort in our changing bodies. Who would want to be a girl in this culture ?

we don't offer them liposuction to make them as slight as they can be. Because it wouldn't be enough.

Totally agree - and also because it would be dangerous, and horrible for them if they later recovered and wanted the healthy body that they would otherwise be able to have.

I think the whole way trans people (whether transsexualism as of old, or the new "transgender") have been lumped in with gay rights is and always has been a mistake. It is a different thing, with many more ramifications and far less tangible evidence, which is a bad combination. The way trans ideologists are now targeting same-sex-attracted people shows how incompatible they are.

I think it's because of the Stonewall and similar teachings that questioning trans ideology at all, or questioning a trans person's decisions at all, is transphobic and directly comparable to picking on someone for being gay.

This is it....it’s not comparable to being gay.

My assumption is that all gay people, and indeed straight people fought for equality because that was the right thing to do. Crucially, gay rights did not impinge on anyone else’s rights.

Contrast that to the fact that some trans people themselves are against many aspects of trans ideology - we’ve had trans posters here come and tell us that. Debbie Hayton also springs to mind.

Crucially, trans rights (to eg enter the space of their opposite sex) do impinge on the rights of the others.

It’s just so obviously a problem in a way that gay rights never were.

bitheby

I was addressing the person responsible for making a grin emoticon, in the middle of a discussion of how to avoid encouraging suicidal ideation.

I lived with a transwoman years ago and, coincidentally, we had the exact same medical insurance. They got a free boob job. Meanwhile I fought for a breast reduction due to severe back pain, rashes under my boobs, doctor's supporting notes, and was rejected three times as it was deemed merely "cosmetic", despite the back PAIN!
Clearly some "women" are more important than others.

Thanks, yes these are the kids of things I was referring to but didn't have them to hand.

A few links here:

thefederalist.com/2018/02/20/rich-white-men-institutionalizing-transgender-ideology/

www.the11thhourblog.com/post/follow-the-money-how-the-pritzker-family-makes-a-killing-from-the-transgender-industry-flow-chart

4thwavenow.com/2016/07/11/follow-the-money-trans-billionaire-makes-new-1-million-grant-to-chicago-pediatric-transition-clinic/

@MrsBunHat 'Some people have claimed it really is sinister and is being pushed by big pharma who stand to benefit from lots of vulnerable people being medicalised for life.'.

If you go on a crowdfunding site like Gofundme, look up 'top surgery' fundraisers and start adding up the money being raised by youngsters for this... I did that after a discussion with someone last year and we were both stunned by it. And that's just the ones who aren't getting it done on medical insurance in the US or the NHS here.

If a killer said his wife "deserved to die" would you be happy seeing reports saying "woman killed because she "deserved to die""? The fact it's a quote doesn't change the intention behind the claim.

That's a great analogy.

I think it's because of the Stonewall and similar teachings that questioning trans ideology at all, or questioning a trans person's decisions at all, is transphobic and directly comparable to picking on someone for being gay.

Many organisations and individuals have swallowed this so that "celebrating" someone for being trans is the only permissible option. Even when there's a clear possibility that they are, in various cases, just seeking an "identity" to escape their own lives or find a sense of self, dealing with body issues caused by sexual abuse, have a need for attention and to feel special (not dissing that it's common in teens), or in some cases simply a dishonest predator.

Some people have claimed it really is sinister and is being pushed by big pharma who stand to benefit from lots of vulnerable people being medicalised for life. I haven't waded through the evidence for that but I have read that it is happening.

The strangest thing about all this to me is how little it's questioned outside of radical feminism. A successful, beautiful, female movie star, really someone as privileged as you can get, hates being a woman so much that she would rather identify as a man. As far as the media tells us what women are supposed to aspire to be, a movie star is supposedly at the pinnacle of success for a woman. You'd think more feminists would at least have some analysis to offer on this, would try to unpick why someone like Page would feel the way they do, how the toxic expectations for females in the film industry might have had an influence, but only rad fems dare to even go there. Why is everyone so afraid of even discussing this? Who's pulling all the strings to create this compliance with a narrative that must never be questioned? Why doesn't the BBC report on trans issues as they would with anything else, showing different sides to the story - ROGD, the dangers of cross sex hormones, trans widows, fake suicide claims, NHS whistleblowers? Why is there so much bias constantly shown on this issue? It's sinister.