Elliot Page undergoes “lifesaving” “top surgery”

So brains of transgendered individuals are different from those of the opposite sex.

Wow, I thought that was an extreme belief that has been rejected by civilised society!

Our results suggest that some neuroanatomical, neurophysiological, and neurometabolic features in transgender individuals resemble those of their experienced gender despite the majority resembling those from their natal sex.

So brains of transgendered individuals are different from those of the opposite sex.

To go back to the “gendered brain” idea, I found this metadata study (not paywalled):

Structural, Functional, and Metabolic Brain Differences as a Function of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation: A Systematic Review of the Human Neuroimaging Literature

link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10508-021-02005-9

This review systematically explored structural, functional, and metabolic features of the cisgender brain compared with the transgender brain before hormonal treatment and the heterosexual brain compared to the homosexual brain from the analysis of the neuroimaging literature up to 2018, and identified and discussed subsequent studies published up to March 2021. Our main aim was to help identifying neuroradiological brain features that have been related to human sexuality to contribute to the understanding of the biological elements involved in gender identity and sexual orientation. We analyzed 39 studies on gender identity and 24 on sexual orientation. Our results suggest that some neuroanatomical, neurophysiological, and neurometabolic features in transgender individuals resemble those of their experienced gender despite the majority resembling those from their natal sex. In homosexual individuals the majority resemble those of their same-sex heterosexual population rather than their opposite-sex heterosexual population. However, it is always difficult to interpret findings with noninvasive neuroimaging. Given the gross nature of these measures, it is possible that more differences too subtle to measure with available tools yet contributing to gender identity and sexual orientation could be found. Conflicting results contributed to the difficulty of identifying specific brain features which consistently differ between cisgender and transgender or between heterosexual and homosexual groups. The small number of studies, the small-to-moderate sample size of each study, and the heterogeneity of the investigations made it impossible to meta-analyze all the data extracted. Further studies are necessary to increase the understanding of the neurological substrates of human sexuality.

It literally isn’t very conclusive.

Has anyone convinced the Farmer's Union that sex is a social construct yet, and that assuming the sex of their livestock is transphobic, that the cows gender or that of a day old chick is what matters?

I think what you really mean is you'll get hounded off the board by a hive mind, whose extreme views have largely been rejected by civilised society.

I think the view that men should be able to choose to be placed in a women's prison and the women get no choice other than to deal with it is an extreme view and I am astonished that I civilised society thinks this is ok.

Do you think that's okay?

I think what you really mean is you'll get hounded off the board by a hive mind, whose extreme views have largely been rejected by civilised society.

You're hilarious "extreme views" like acknowledging the existence of biological sex, in response to "their brains are literally made like the brain of their identified gender".

It seems very obvious, to me, that publicising a celebrity’s elective mastectomy with claims that it was “life-saving” may convince many troubled teenagers that they need their breasts removed too. Or that maybe they should consider suicide?

Could anyone complaining about Mumsnetters’ concern tell me how this is a good thing?

Outlandish views? I presume this includes People can't change sex and There is no such thing as a gendered brain?

But I’ve got to say, when asking for citations, going to birth a baby as opposed to going to ice a cake is inspired in admiration!

“That’s an outlandish claim, can you provide evidence?”

Ahh. That sort of extreme view. Got it. Well evidence isn't really fashionable these days is it...

I think what you really mean is you'll get hounded off the board by a hive mind, whose extreme views have largely been rejected by civilised society

Extreme views like humans can't actually change sex? That has only been rejected by a tiny minority of dangerous people. Are you one of them?

I think what you really mean is you'll get hounded off the board by a hive mind, whose extreme views have largely been rejected by civilised society. Hardly. A sothers have said the higher you reach the furthe you have to fall. And @WeavingWandering claimed some quite specific and highly qualified things.

As I aid, some of us here are eually qualified, and may even have published in various journals, book chapters etc. But we wouldn't crow about them unless we were willing to identify our real life selves. I've told the story of one of my publications a few times, nobody has ever asked to see it as it was not the point of the tale. I wouldn't use the reality of it to prove I am who/what I say I am as it would remove my anonymity. But I WOULD use the expertise and data I have because of it to back up anything I claimed. Which is what was asked for before the "I am a published neuroscience expert" claim was made! We were offered Creative Learning!!!!!

“That’s an outlandish claim, can you provide evidence?”

I believe GCHQ and the NSA filter metadata for such statements to help narrow down their searches .

I think what you really mean is you'll get hounded off the board by a hive mind, whose extreme views have largely been rejected by civilised society.

You could have phrased your opinion in loads of different ways that didn't involve telling someone "what they really mean". It's not a good tactic if you want to be taken seriously.
And by the way, if you think reading opinions you don't agree with is "hounding off", then women are being hounded off loads of places. I'm being hounded off right now! Why won't you stop with the hounding?

@thedancingbear when someone who claims to have published in neuroscience makes sweeping claims about gendered brains with zero evidence to support, they should have their arse handed to them. That is not hounding. That is critical thinking and having standards.

I would not have been so forthright had this person not said they were published. They should absolutely know better.

I think what you really mean is you'll get hounded off the board by a hive mind, whose extreme views have largely been rejected by civilised society.

What extreme views are they?

Spout shite on here and you will get your arse handed to you on a plate.

This is why I love this board!

I couldn’t sleep last night with excitement waiting for the links to these journal articles.

Do we have them yet?

@WeavingWandering if you are a published academic I think you also need to brush up on your basic skills.

#1 know your stuff and if you don't Stfu particularly if you are in company with people who do

#2 if you voice a theory be ready to cite your evidence, you don't form a theory and then retrospectively look for evidence to back it up. Recipe for bias right there.

#3 Always critically assess the quality of your evidence. Sample size. Methodology. Make up of the study team. Strength of conclusions. Potential alternative conclusions.

#4 look at all the evidence, not just the stuff that supports your hypothesis.

Spout shite on here and you will get your arse handed to you on a plate.

And to the person who asked about brain scans to identify before surgery - interesting point. I’m not sure it’s something I’d personally advocate for - at the end of the day it’s their body so I’m not sure they need to ‘prove’ anything if they want to alter it.

So does the brain scan matter in showing that someone is trans, or doesn't it? You explained it as proof that being trans is real.

So if someone doesn't have the evidence in their brain scan, that means they are not trans and transitioning could be a grave error for them. At least for NHS treatment the scan should be compulsory, otherwise you're spending money on people who aren't trans and they're taking valuable places away from those who are, what with the long waiting lists. And what about male rapists in prison who suddenly identify as trans? Surely a brain scan would be sensible for them, to check they are a woman before they get put in a woman's prison. If not, are you actually saying that it's fine for a man to pretend to be a woman with the ulterior motive of gaining access to female victims, even if he is not trans and that could definitely be proved? Why?

Obviously, I don't think brain scans really show any such thing, but you do. So how is self-ID compatible with there being evidence when you do a brain scan?

If trans people have special brains and that can be shown, then that should be the definition of trans.

If anyone can self-ID as trans irrespective of their brain scan results, then why mention it?

Good luck with the birth!

I can also access most academic papers via work, so looking forward to your links.

But which gender brain have you made there Weaving?

How will you know?

leaf I'm guessing this one.

www.creativeeducation.co.uk/courses/how-can-schools-and-colleges-support-students-who-are-gender-variant/#learndash-course-content

I will have a proper look, but had my second jab today and I feel crook.