Elliot Page undergoes “lifesaving” “top surgery”

And arguably anything that reduces the risk of death is life saving - whether that’s medication, therapy or surgery or a life style change

No, that's not what life saving means. I think you know that.

the attitudes displayed by many of the posters here make it clear why trans/gender diverse individuals might experience anxiety/depression/etc- all mental health conditions which DO have an increased suicide risk.

You are accusing posters here of displaying attitudes that risk increasing suicidality? That's an utterly appalling thing to say.

People become depressed due to gender dysphoria.

Depression/ poor mental health is the cause of feeling suicidal.

But because people with gender dysphoria are depressed, they shouldn't be allowed to make life changing decisions? What... ever?

So people with gender dysphoria just have to stay stuck in this horrible cycle forever because they can't make a decision because of their depression?

I complained to the BBC about this being said in the Oprah interview.
Their reply was that as Elliot had said it, it was okay for them to include it.
Also they added helpful links to their page - Stonewall etc. :-(

The rest of the piece is still grim though

Yes it is.

I would recommend the creative education training on supporting young people across a range of gender identities. It would help answer lots of your questions. And it’s free.

Being trans is not a mental illness, however the attitudes displayed by many of the posters here make it clear why trans/gender diverse individuals might experience anxiety/depression/etc- all mental health conditions which DO have an increased suicide risk. And that’s without taking into account the impacts of body dysmorphia.

And arguably anything that reduces the risk of death is life saving - whether that’s medication, therapy or surgery or a life style change.

A few years ago there was a lovely series of videos made that had public figures including Barack Obama saying, it gets better. Does anyone remember? It was anti-bullying and aimed particularly at LGBT kids, to tell them that no matter how tough life can be in school, in a difficult home environment etc, hang on in there, it does get better. How did we go from that message to, have your breasts cut off or you’re going to kill yourself?

You can say someone is gay as long as you make it clear that doesn't mean they prefer a particular sex. I think.

The article says he came out as gay - is it not transphobic to say he's gay?

I have exactly this frustration with some Christian LGBT rights campaigners, notably Jayne Ozanne and her organisation. A little while back a young teenager (I think she was 13) who attended an evangelical church tragically killed herself. The stated reason given was that she was a lesbian and the church and her parents were homophobic, and she couldn’t face coming out to any of them. All the campaigning and reporting on the case went heavy on this as the reason for her suicide; the pastor gave a public apology and the church she attended did a very public pivot and now is totally accepting of LGBT people. Jayne, that pastor and many other campaigners regularly cite the girl by name still as being a great inspiration and say that if other churches don’t immediately become similarly accepting there will be lots more suicides of teens and young people.

I have on occasion tried gently to challenge this narrative precisely on the grounds that it contravenes at least two of the Samaritans’ guidelines on responsible reporting of suicide: it attributes her death to one thing only, and it says that her death had a positive result (made her church accept gay people). It’s practically an invitation to other similarly troubled teenagers to follow suit

I say this as a lesbian who grew up in a homophobic religious community, by the way.

That's better, but it shouldn't have happened in the first place.

Although, it's not necessarily a 'flaw', it's just not something the survey compared.

*This study seems to have a pretty major flaw in that it didn't compare transgender people who had undergone surgery to transgender people who hadn't undergone surgery.

All it does is compare transgender people who have undergone surgery to non-transgender people, and it concludes that transgender people who have undergone surgery have a higher risk of suicide than the general population.*

I agree, did you read the second paper I posted?

@Wannabangbang
@Mockolate
@Collaborate

Do you get it now? This was about irresponsible reporting.

Trans people are more at risk of suicide and suicidal ideation if they don't get the treatment they need

Depression/poor mental health is the cause of feeling suicidal. People suffering depression are strongly advised against making any major decisions, such as selling their house, getting divorced, quitting their job etc, because they're not in the right frame of mind to be making calls like that and will likely regret it later.

Yet people who are suicidal or depressed because of their dysphoria are considered to be in the right state of mind to be making huge life changing decisions (having healthy body parts removed).

Why does safeguarding go out of the window as soon as 'gender' is mentioned?

Seems we were right. I expect they've had loads of complaints.

Without a doubt.

[quote Leafstamp]They've just changed the headline:

www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-57239448[/quote]
Seems we were right. I expect they've had loads of complaints.

They've just changed the headline:

www.bbc.com/news/entertainment-arts-57239448

Trans people are more at risk of suicide and suicidal ideation if they don't get the treatment they need. That's not "perpetuating a narrative", it's just the truth.

Just so we're looking at the same item, that's a non-random survey from 2012?

Whilst the study provided an important starting point for better understanding rates of suicidal ideation and suicide attempt within the UK trans population, it did not represent an in-depth exploration of the characteristics and correlates of suicide risk and behaviour. Instead, the findings on suicidal ideation and suicide attempt emerged as part of a wider survey of general rates of mental health and experience, which were examined mainly in relation to interaction with primary care, mental health and specialist health services. The study did explore some of the contributing factors for suicide risk – identified in terms of trans-related and non-trans-related factors – however, it did not present a substantive examination of all the factors which elevate trans suicide risk, particularly in relation to those for whom social and/or medical transition was not relevant or needed.

And no comparison with comparable cohorts?

I'm glad for him. He looks great but it is not lifesaving surgery. It is very probably life-enhancing, it has certainly made him happier in his own skin but it is dangerous to imply that without that sort of surgery suicide is the next option. Maybe it was for him, I can't pretend to know that but for many people who want to transition surgery will be too expensive, unavailable or a very long time coming. Rather than push the narrative that suicide is an option - even though obviously it is - can be very damaging to young people trying to come to terms with who they are.

If that's transphobic, then I own it.

Elliot found it lifesaving - ie from his perspective it saved his life. That is all

WE can all say anything we like, it doesn't make it actually true. OP is right, its irresponsible terminology that feeds the idea that troubled people need cosmetic surgery or they will kill themselves.