Page 10 | Elliot Page undergoes “lifesaving” “top surgery”

OnWednesdaysWeWearMink · 2021-05-25T14:41:07+00:00

BBC R1 news beat has just reported that Elliot page has undergone “life saving” “top surgery”. Here is the related web article: [[https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-57239448]] This reporting perpetuates the narrative that people will commit suicide if they don’t get the right sort of treatment. I find it deeply irresponsible. Does anyone know if Samaritans are tackling this sort of coverage in their media guidelines? I’d hope work is going on behind the scenes as they are a fantastic charity. (I assume they are not captured?) A double mastectomy is usually lifesaving when it comes to breast cancer... so I find calling an elective cosmetic procedure lifesaving pretty insulting. But that’s just me being petty and not the main point.

Koolandorthegang · 25/05/2021 20:54

It’s interesting that you decided you wanted to start a thread about media reporting of something about a trans person and you went straight to the Feminism Board to post your thread.

justawoman · 25/05/2021 20:51

@HecatesCatsInFancyHats

Suicide rates for trans identified teenagers in the UK are no higher than the rates for other teenagers. There are long waiting times for treatment. We'd expect to see some kind of epidemic amongst these young people if the suicide risk were as high as is claimed. It's not true though - it's just been weaponised to manipulate.

This is true. And we’d also expect to see reports throughout history and across other cultures of teenagers killing themselves in large numbers because they were trans, especially in times when no form of ‘sex change’ was ever going to be possible or permitted. And yet we don’t.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 25/05/2021 20:50

No higher than for other teenagers with mental health conditions.

Yes, quite right, omitted that.

Original poster

OnWednesdaysWeWearMink · 25/05/2021 20:49

[quote Thehawki]@OnWednesdaysWeWearMink It is a direct quote though, is that against the guidelines? Does the BBC have to adhere to these or are they just advisory? I’ve never actually heard of them so I don’t know.[/quote]
They’re advisory only. The thing that outraged me was the radio report, in which it was not suggested it was a quote. It was about a 5 second clip on radio 1 newsbeat where the journalist said “Elliot page has undergone lifesaving top surgery”.

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Original poster

OnWednesdaysWeWearMink · 25/05/2021 20:47

It’s true maybe it shouldn’t be on the feminist board, it should be on a mental health board if there is one? I am on Mumsnet for feminist chat so I just defaulted here. Is there a way to get it moved? I would love to hear from mental health experts on their views specifically on the responsible reporting of trans surgery... and less from people angry about other stuff or pretending this is a transphobic thread

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PaleBlueMoonlight · 25/05/2021 20:46

@HecatesCatsInFancyHats

Suicide rates for trans identified teenagers in the UK are no higher than the rates for other teenagers. There are long waiting times for treatment. We'd expect to see some kind of epidemic amongst these young people if the suicide risk were as high as is claimed. It's not true though - it's just been weaponised to manipulate.

No higher than for other teenagers with mental health conditions.

Leafstamp · 25/05/2021 20:40

@Koolandorthegang

Why is this thread posted in the Feminism board?

Also because EP is someone girls and young women take notice of and because we should not be remotely suggesting to them that a double mastectomy is a “lifesaving” operation.

Also, it’s not very respectful to women who involuntarily had mastectomies that have been lifesaving.

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 25/05/2021 20:40

Suicide rates for trans identified teenagers in the UK are no higher than the rates for other teenagers. There are long waiting times for treatment. We'd expect to see some kind of epidemic amongst these young people if the suicide risk were as high as is claimed. It's not true though - it's just been weaponised to manipulate.

Koolandorthegang · 25/05/2021 20:35

@Erikrie

Why is this thread posted in the Feminism board

Why shouldn't it be.

The OP is concerned about how the media is reporting on a trans person having surgery. I’m just trying to understand what this has to do with feminism?

HecatesCatsInFancyHats · 25/05/2021 20:35

@Koolandorthegang

Why is this thread posted in the Feminism board?

Because internalised misogyny and trauma recovery are feminist issues.

Erikrie · 25/05/2021 20:32

Why is this thread posted in the Feminism board

Why shouldn't it be.

Koolandorthegang · 25/05/2021 20:22

Why is this thread posted in the Feminism board?

GCAutist · 25/05/2021 20:18

Somewhat off topic but why is it ok for EP to have their flat cheats and nips Posted proudly across all social media but I had photos of breastfeeding my child removed for indecency? Had I claimed to be a trans man would my F cups been allowed to be visible, nips and all?

Thehawki · 25/05/2021 20:14

@OnWednesdaysWeWearMink It is a direct quote though, is that against the guidelines? Does the BBC have to adhere to these or are they just advisory? I’ve never actually heard of them so I don’t know.

ArabellaScott · 25/05/2021 20:13

@Clymene

We're truly in the upsidedown when a psychotherapist grins at the idea of a woman wanting to amputate healthy breast tissue and thinks that suicidal ideation related to said healthy body parts is perfectly normal.

Yes, it's grim. And apparently without any real evidence for suggesting that surgery is in any way effective at alleviating anything, let alone suicidal tendencies.

Repeating the extract from a study I posted earlier, as Weaving seems to have not noticed it:

''An important finding was that the incidence for observed suicide deaths was almost equally distributed over the different stages of treatment. Although the distribution showed that one‐third of the suicides occurred in people who were no longer in active treatment in our center, the other two‐third of the people who died by suicide still visited our center in the previous two years. About half of these last two‐third people were still in active diagnostic or medical treatment, while the other half completed their transition and only came for a medical check‐up. This indicates that vulnerability for suicide occurs similarly in the different stages of transition.''

Clymene · 25/05/2021 20:08

We're truly in the upsidedown when a psychotherapist grins at the idea of a woman wanting to amputate healthy breast tissue and thinks that suicidal ideation related to said healthy body parts is perfectly normal.

NecessaryScene1 · 25/05/2021 20:07

So it's not a social contagion, yet apparently we have here a bunch of people on this thread who are convinced that an operation to remove health body parts can be "life-saving".

When did you start believing this, and why? It's because you heard other people say it. And now you're saying it.

For you it's not so bad - you're only believing it about other people. Unfortunately some vulnerable people will hear it and believe it about themselves.

Leafstamp · 25/05/2021 20:03

@Doyoumind

I thought having to say RTFT was only necessary on AIBU.

If you are going to engage, RTFT.

Well said!

Doyoumind · 25/05/2021 20:00

I thought having to say RTFT was only necessary on AIBU.

If you are going to engage, RTFT.

Original poster

OnWednesdaysWeWearMink · 25/05/2021 19:58

@Nellle

OnWednesdays I understand exactly what you're saying, but quoting EP for a headline here is just as legitimate as quoting Meghan Markle's "I didn't want to be alive anymore". Indeed, the more controversial a quote, the more headline-worthy.

Yet here's all this fretting about EP's opinion on his own body and life.

But this place is all for free speech right?

I am absolutely supportive of free speech. People can say whatever they like, as long as it’s not an incitement to violence.

I have the utmost respect for journalists at mainstream news organisations. They are highly trained professionals. Their training includes responsible reporting of suicide. They should follow it.

There is a tension between reporting what people say / reporting the facts in a certain way and reporting responsibly.

Consider the example given before of a headline saying a woman was killed “because she deserved it”. A factual quote, but not responsible.

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Original poster

OnWednesdaysWeWearMink · 25/05/2021 19:52

@Thehawki

What if it actually was lifesaving for Elliot?

It still goes against reporting guidelines for suicide.

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Thehawki · 25/05/2021 19:48

What if it actually was lifesaving for Elliot?

pheebumbalatti · 25/05/2021 19:47

It seems from the article that he himself is describing it as life-saving, not the author. So it's not an opinion about "top surgeries" in general , it's what was right for that individual.

MolyHolyGuacamole · 25/05/2021 19:46

Because it affects their mental health. Everyone saying that only a mastectomy for cancer could be considered 'life-saving'; funny how all of a sudden mental health can't be compared to physical health in terms of impact on the person, but it was when 'distress' was stopping people from wearing face masks

Which is it?

Pandoraslastchance · 25/05/2021 19:44

@ThePawtriarchy Ah but it's OK for me to live with one breast despite the mental and physical effects as I am a woman. So woman's anguish=get on with it/deal with it
Trans anguish= must be catered to