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Original poster

How to (re)approach Headteacher (re: trans ideology)?

140 replies

therestissilence · 24/05/2021 19:02

Advice needed so that I can act effectively and carefully. Context: small independent primary school, Catholic but not exclusive.

Two years ago, I arranged a meeting with the Head, armed with some TransgenderTrend literature; I wanted to see what her attitudes were towards the trans trend. At the time there were no kids in the school who thought they were trans. As I was telling her what has been going on in many other schools - and in wider society - she looked a little bit like she thought I was crazy, and responded with the (perhaps) naive 'well we won't be having any of that nonsense in this school'. I left her with the literature, nevertheless.

Lo and behold, a year 5 girl has emerged from lockdown (too much time on the internet?) saying she's a boy. She has a new name, has ditched the school uniform (which is very 'gendered' in our school for both the boys and girls) and wears PE kit everyday. Other parents have said their daughters have been distressed because when they 'accidentally' refer to her as 'her', or 'she' , the girl turns on them and calls them transphobic. It must be so confusing for them. I am extremely heartened, however, to hear that the teachers are still referring to the girl correctly - and seem not to be over-indulging her.

However, if the Head starts seeking advice, she could end up getting advice from the wrong people (such as Stonewall, GOD FORBID).

Now that she knows I'm NOT crazy, how might I re-approach her, in order to nudge her in the right and sane direction? I'm asking because I've already raised this once, and don't want to come across as bullish by requesting a second meeting.

Thankfully, my own daughter is in Y1, so will have minimal exposure to the mind-fuckery going on in Y5. However, I think it is a critical time for the school; they are facing their first 'case' and no doubt policies are being formulated as I type.

Advice?

OP posts:
334bu · 24/05/2021 23:37

No but they have been known to cover up the perversions of some priests at the same time as shouting about how bad trans and gay people are. Total shocker really as it 2000 years of child abuse being silenced in the name of religion had taught us nothing. 😢

I absolutely agree, have we not learned from the mistakes of the past. This is why enhanced safeguarding and teaching children that they are entitled to boundaries must be considered to be of the utmost importance in all of our schools. Both sexes must have the right to privacy and no child should be expected to put aside their needs for dignity and privacy for anyone else.

Original poster
therestissilence · 24/05/2021 23:33

There's also the issue that this focus on 'affirming' will leave children hooked and dependent on external validation. Which, I guess, is symptomatic of the age we live in, sadly.

OP posts:
Original poster
therestissilence · 24/05/2021 23:29

@Nosquit

With regards to 'finding out who they are', what if this girl is simply a tomboy, or a lesbian-in-waiting, who has read some stuff on the internet and now thinks they must be a 'boy'? That would not be 'finding out who they are', but getting massively derailed. And if that child is affirmed, and even celebrated, in their new 'gender identity' (rather than simply accepted, and treated with compassion and humanity) why on earth would they give that up?

OP posts:
Steph751 · 24/05/2021 23:25

@justawoman

The Roman Catholic Church does not believe in nor teach creationism.
No but they have been known to cover up the perversions of some priests at the same time as shouting about how bad trans and gay people are. Total shocker really as it 2000 years of child abuse being silenced in the name of religion had taught us nothing. 😢
OldCrone · 24/05/2021 23:25

I’ve been on Mumsnet 10 years under various names.

In that case I'm surprised that you think that anyone here thinks sex and gender are the same.

Nosquit · 24/05/2021 23:22

I’ve been on Mumsnet 10 years under various names. I know the MN stance. There are trans and trans - but as with all things not everyone can be tarred with the same brush, negatively or positively I hasten to add. I disagree with quite a bit of militant trans propaganda, as do the trans people I know. (For example I think it wrong that people can just legally identify so quickly, the old way of ‘living as opposite gender for x years etc” was better - only those who really are trans would go through that hell of torment. The ‘quick’ way is open to abuse. I am also on the fence about trans people in professional sports - I can see both sides to that one and wish it was easier to have a “grouped by ability rather than gender” system such as ‘A-C grade, but know that wouldn’t be easy/possible) But this thread isn’t about that, it is about a kid who is finding out who they are and needs support on both sides. (And yes I did let my child live as a dinosaur for a week and bed called Dennis)

Original poster
therestissilence · 24/05/2021 23:21

@Nosquit

Because they want to be known and treated as a boy.

While I totally agree with the OP about it being gender stereotypes etc that causes a lot of this these children need support. They need people to talk to them about why they feel like that etc. What they don’t need is people refusing to call them what they want to be called and making them feel like they cannot be themselves. It’s ok to say “You know girls can do that too.” But I know many trans people and I wish it were as simple as stereotypes etc.

@Nosquit I agree that it is imperative that the child identifying as trans is supported and not judged. But I think an over-affirming and somewhat 'celebratory' response could have negative consequences.

Other children (especially primary-aged) will have questions. This won't make sense to them. And issues need to be explained to them in a sensitive, but truthful and direct way - such as 'no you cannot change from a girl to a boy, but X really wishes she could be a boy and we should try to understand that'.

What I am anxious the school doesn't do, is what orgs such as Stonewall advise - which is instantly affirm the child in their belief, and force that on other young minds too. These issues are just as much about the other children in the classroom.

OP posts:
OldCrone · 24/05/2021 23:19

Changing rooms etc can be discussed to help the safety of the child in question and their wishes. Some want to use the one appropriate to their gender, others to their biological sex.

What about what the other children want? Do they have rights too? If girls object to a boy in their changing room do they get a say? Or are they just told that they are bigots?

Nosquit · 24/05/2021 23:14

Because they want to be known and treated as a boy.

While I totally agree with the OP about it being gender stereotypes etc that causes a lot of this these children need support. They need people to talk to them about why they feel like that etc. What they don’t need is people refusing to call them what they want to be called and making them feel like they cannot be themselves. It’s ok to say “You know girls can do that too.” But I know many trans people and I wish it were as simple as stereotypes etc.

OldCrone · 24/05/2021 23:12

So most of you seem to think gender and sex are the same

You obviously haven't spent much time on here. This thread might help you to understand what people on here think.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me?

Nosquit · 24/05/2021 23:10

And as an add on to my last post: Sports etc can be supported. It’s difficult and an effort for the school but possible. Changing rooms etc can be discussed to help the safety of the child in question and their wishes. Some want to use the one appropriate to their gender, others to their biological sex. Most schools also have a disabled/unisex toilet and at mine trans kids have been able to use those if they want to.

OldCrone · 24/05/2021 23:09

Why is it your business if this child is trans and wants to live as a different gender?

How does a child 'live as a different gender'?

Nosquit · 24/05/2021 23:07

And as for those mentioning toilets: So most of you seem to think gender and sex are the same etc so a trans man is still a woman - so you are happy with someone who presents as totally masculine, has big muscles etc going in to women’s toilets because they are still a woman? Or thinking about the age of these kids someone who looks just like a boy and is unrecognisable as a girl (trust me at such young ages they don’t need surgery to look convincingly cosmetically the opposite sex) going in to the female toilets with all the girls?
Trust me kids don’t care at that age and with adults truly trans people just want to piss in peace.

Nosquit · 24/05/2021 23:03

Maybe you should respect the boy (or female sexual organ owning person if you prefer to go by what is in someone’s pants/under their shirt rather than who they are) in question and let them live their life?
Having worked in schools with trans kids most children actually don’t find it difficult at all to adjust to calling others by a different pronoun or name etc. Why is it your business if this child is trans and wants to live as a different gender?
“Well they might be forced in to it: it may be only a phase: peer pressure blah blah blah” - even so if it’s a phase etc there really is no harm and I actually doubt they are being forced if it continues in school. Plus if it’s a phase they won’t be taking any drugs yet so there really is no harm. What you should do is mind your own business and think how you would feel if that boy was you!

ChakaDakotaRegina · 24/05/2021 22:54

I think it’s worth contacting the school and governers or pta. As demonstrated here, some people have only thought about toilets and being ‘nice’ and won’t have thought about the knock on implications like dorms on overnight trips, sports, showers, single sex groups like lesbian groups or guides, hospital wards, requesting women Drs, women’s shortlists or women’s officers, jobs with accommodation like the army, patterns of offending etc. Not to mention the reliance on stereotypes and the thought gymnastics that have to be played by others in order to facilitate.

Please let’s not encourage vulnerable young females to go into male showers, dorms, sports and changing rooms. We can absolutely support this kid in getting a wide ranging education but this has to include facts, boundaries, safeguarding and getting on with other people.

Original poster
therestissilence · 24/05/2021 21:59

@MishyJDI

It's precisely the reinforcing of stereotypes I don't want to see in a school of primary aged children. This is what trans-ideology is all about. The girl in question is one of many 'tomboys' (for want of a better word) in the school. And that's OK. Girls can be whatever they want and whoever they want without feeling it means they are a 'boy', which is utterly, insanely and depressingly regressive.

OP posts:
Original poster
therestissilence · 24/05/2021 21:52

Thanks @nauticant ! Definitely going to go down the 'major developments' route. Two years ago she was incredulous that this sort of thing could be even happening, so I really do think in this small school - which is in a bit of a bubble, to he honest - she may well have not been aware of what's been going on elsewhere.

OP posts:
Steph751 · 24/05/2021 21:25

@justawoman

The Roman Catholic Church does not believe in nor teach creationism.
I'm not sure if I'm right but, they do seem to have a problem at a worrying incidence of staff praying on children and the vulnerable. I'm sure most do good work but, something similar needs to be done to ensure we don't reach a point where we are saying 'watch priests just in case. ' Imagine the hate generated from that belief.
MishyJDI · 24/05/2021 21:23

@therestissilence

Advice needed so that I can act effectively and carefully. Context: small independent primary school, Catholic but not exclusive.

Two years ago, I arranged a meeting with the Head, armed with some TransgenderTrend literature; I wanted to see what her attitudes were towards the trans trend. At the time there were no kids in the school who thought they were trans. As I was telling her what has been going on in many other schools - and in wider society - she looked a little bit like she thought I was crazy, and responded with the (perhaps) naive 'well we won't be having any of that nonsense in this school'. I left her with the literature, nevertheless.

Lo and behold, a year 5 girl has emerged from lockdown (too much time on the internet?) saying she's a boy. She has a new name, has ditched the school uniform (which is very 'gendered' in our school for both the boys and girls) and wears PE kit everyday. Other parents have said their daughters have been distressed because when they 'accidentally' refer to her as 'her', or 'she' , the girl turns on them and calls them transphobic. It must be so confusing for them. I am extremely heartened, however, to hear that the teachers are still referring to the girl correctly - and seem not to be over-indulging her.

However, if the Head starts seeking advice, she could end up getting advice from the wrong people (such as Stonewall, GOD FORBID).

Now that she knows I'm NOT crazy, how might I re-approach her, in order to nudge her in the right and sane direction? I'm asking because I've already raised this once, and don't want to come across as bullish by requesting a second meeting.

Thankfully, my own daughter is in Y1, so will have minimal exposure to the mind-fuckery going on in Y5. However, I think it is a critical time for the school; they are facing their first 'case' and no doubt policies are being formulated as I type.

Advice?

I wouldn't worry too much. Catholic school. They are going to be anti Queer by default, so will reinforce stereotypes until the poor kid leaves and goes to somewhere welcoming I would expect.

Jesus wept no doubt!

Leafstamp · 24/05/2021 21:22

I should add, I’m a bit stirred up about all of this because of this thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4253362-School-Video-Words-just-can-t-convey

Leafstamp · 24/05/2021 21:20

@toocold54

What about if school also start teaching that creationism is fact? (what with it being a Catholic school ‘n all. Would any old parent not be allowed to contact the Head then?

As a Science teacher do you know how many parents want me to teach creationism or other religious teachings during my lessons?
I’m always sensitive to different religions but I’m not going to change the lessons because a parent has complained about something that has nothing to do with her.

I think we’ve crossed wires a bit, do you mean lots of parents have or haven’t asked you to teach creationism?

I meant that if school did start teaching creationism as fact then parents would have a right to intervene.

Just like if schools start teaching children they can change sex and compel them to use preferred pronouns then parents have a right to intervene. IMO, that is.

toocold54 · 24/05/2021 21:16

What about if school also start teaching that creationism is fact? (what with it being a Catholic school ‘n all. Would any old parent not be allowed to contact the Head then?

As a Science teacher do you know how many parents want me to teach creationism or other religious teachings during my lessons?
I’m always sensitive to different religions but I’m not going to change the lessons because a parent has complained about something that has nothing to do with her.

Leafstamp · 24/05/2021 21:14

@justawoman

The Roman Catholic Church does not believe in nor teach creationism.
Wish you’d tell that the RE lead at the local catholic school here!
Leafstamp · 24/05/2021 21:13

@toocold54

Two years ago, I arranged a meeting with the Head, armed with some TransgenderTrend literature; I wanted to see what her attitudes were towards the trans trend. At the time there were no kids in the school who thought they were trans.

FFS! I think a headteacher is more than capable of doing their own research on the matter!

IMO primary heads are very busy people who would not have time to do their research on what is basically not a mainstream issue for them.
justawoman · 24/05/2021 21:13

The Roman Catholic Church does not believe in nor teach creationism.